Welcome to the livetweet of Hestia's second meeting! This week, we are led in conversation by @duxfeminafacti9 on how translators choose to depict rape scenes in ancient literature. (CW: Rape)
First, @duxfeminafacti9 reads a quote from Leo Curran's "Rape and Rape Victims in the Metamorphoses": "Rape is the 'dirty little secret' of Ovidian Scholarship." In older translations, Ovidian rape scenes are hidden in innuendo.
One of the legal terms in ancient Rome for rape was "vis passa," which, when it appears in literature, is translated in such a way to convey consensual sex--legally, it explicitly isn't. Leucothoe, for example, is always translated as "willingly accepting" his "vigor."
@duxfeminafacti9 further cites a Moses article on the Rape of Lucretia which says "stuprum" has to be paired with another term, e.g. "per vim," to mean "rape," but after the Lex Julia (which uses Raptus/Rapio for "rape"), "stuprum" can mean rape.
@i_nurmi points out that the word "stuprum" contains within it an association of a loss of honor; it was also used for homosexual sexual experiences.
@duxfeminafacti9 asks: how does Curran's article, along with
@samccart1's @eidolon_journal article "Rape, Lost in Translation", make you think on your own experiences with translation of rape, in and outside of the classroom?
@samccart1's @eidolon_journal article "Rape, Lost in Translation", make you think on your own experiences with translation of rape, in and outside of the classroom?
How do we address when an ancient author is being euphemistic vs. when they are suppressing the (imagined) lived experience of a character? When can we distinguish translations that contain that nuance without covering anything up? @rympasco
The trope of abduction marriage is another problem to address; all we really know is Constantine in 326 CE attacked the practice; this is the first e.g. of an address of marriage abduction in Roman law. Note: it's super late! (Evans-Grubbs, J. 1989, 1.) @duxfeminafacti9
Even in the United States people e.g. Samatha Bee (@iamsambee) have covered laws in several states that still allow child marriage (e.g. consent ages as young as 13); in one case (in NH?) a student brought it up & was not taken seriously by lawmakers. @ala_Camillae
We can potentially use these examples (i.e. modern child marriage & Constantines condemnation of abduction marriages) to connect to students and point out their relevancy/importance; look at how late these examples are, how this is still going on in some ways @ala_Camillae
We often are taught to read stories like the rape of Persephone/Proserpina as a consensual marriage. @duxfeminafacti9 This doesn't even cover the notion of marital rape @ala_Camillae which is still rarely recognized/wasn't legislated until the 1980s in USA.
Persephone/Proserpina not only gets whitewashed into a consensual relationship, but she also is an example of coerced consent via the pomegranate seeds (@i_nurmi @mercury_witch)
@i_nurmi discusses the Roman comedy "Hecyra" by Terence a woman is raped and becomes pregnant; the "punchline" is everyone's relief that the baby is "legitimate" b/c she was raped by her husband. "If it's acceptable in comedy, it's acceptable anywhere" @duxfeminafacti9
Persephone is also the subject of modern reception that depicts her relationship with Hades as beautiful, consensual, and happy, erasing problematic areas of her myth. Cf. tumblr fanart, poetry, etc. with such depictions @ala_Camillae
Even attempts to reclaim Persephone's story by empowering her wind up erasing the problematic truths of her story. A new version of Persephone that shows her taking ownership of her scene can neglect the actual story from myth. @mercury_witch
Other examples of erased rape or narratives reformed as consensual that are particularly disturbing: Leda and the Swan, Europa and the Bull. These two are so frequently depicted in paintings etc. as well. @rympasco @ala_Camillae
Writing and reception frequently romanticize the notion of ancient stories containing rape, showing rape victims in ecstasy. @ala_Camillae @duxfeminafacti9 points to a Z.M. Packman quote (1993): "Translators [hold onto] the sex in these texts, and [leave out] the violence."
@i_nurmi cites @hilsgotilk 's @eidolon_journal article "The Madwoman in the Attic Tradition" on erasure of Cassandra's attempted rape by Apollo; how Apollo punishes her with silence by turning her into a liar--as victims are still often seen/punished today.
Q: If we address these problems head-on, especially institutionalized problems like abduction marriages, don't we risk alienating our students from the ancient world? How do we tell them without our students just saying "f*ck these people"? #teachancient
@rympasco ideologies and customs exist within power structures of societies, and by focusing on lived experiences we create a clearer/more vivid picture. #teachancient
@ala_Camillae like with many sensitive topics in the ancient world, we have to acknowledge comparisons between modern aspects of society; we can contextualize these issues in this way. #teachancient
What are the best practices for talking about these issues in the classroom? What do we do/not do? @rympasco
It would be helpful to email out a trigger warning in advance of a discussion on a rape scene; however, it's a topic that frequently comes up naturally in discussion without warning--how do we deal when we aren't prepared? @ala_Camillae
Providing comparisons of various translations, as @duxfeminafacti9 did for our discussion of translation of rape scenes, can be a really useful device for discussion of erasure of rape when we read ancient texts.
The most important thing is to discover methods to quickly recover from that "deer in the headlights" moment. @i_nurmi Last week, we discussed the value in not only acknowledging your own discomfort but being vocal about it.
We also need to be incredibly wary of not being gratuitous in our discussions--avoid graphic descriptions of your own @ala_Camillae but also be aware that often these texts already contain graphic imagery which needs to be discussed @mercury_witch #teachancient
@ala_Camillae brings up her own discussions of slavery and how she has taken two texts on similar issues to demonstrate how different perspectives take form in the ancient world; can we do that when it comes to rape, or do we risk over-saturating our students with graphic scenes?
@ala_Camillae furthermore, when we guide these discussions do we risk a student's perspective going too far/alienating other students in the room? What about risk of disclosure by a student in the classroom?
@i_nurmi @i_nurmi we discussed last week the idea of using those as "teachable moments," and interrogating points your students make; it's also critical, @ala_Camillae says, that we preface this topic with notions of support, and make resources available to students
One of our cohort (not on twitter) says that you have to talk about it; the Classics have enduring themes that resonate with/reflect our contemporary context; we know how the Romans felt about certain things/were wrong about certain things.
If we want our students to discuss these things productively, we have to allow them and trust them to do what we're doing. We also have to separate our reactions/scholarly reactions from interpreting the author's intent.
@ala_Camillae gives an example off of this regarding Ovid, who has been criticized for being "comedic" or making light of rape scenes; however, in one seminar we dug into potential readings of Ovidian rape scenes as viscerally empathetic to the victims in his poetry.
@rympasco says one thing we have to keep paying attention to is the problem of reading rape as a metaphor; it /can/ be read & function in a text as such, but we can't just reduce it to functioning only in that way.
@ala_Camillae when we look at how Roman authors DO use Rape as a metaphor, they are stripping victims of their lived experience; this is still an issue everywhere in modern society.
@i_nurmi so many important foundational stories include episodes of rape. (e.g. Lucretia); to return to Persephone, her lived experience makes her sympathize with her followers; choices serve a purpose/are important. Why does Livy choose Lucretia?
@ala_Camillae we have to grapple with the way that meanings have been reduced or glossed over; it's important to show that we run the risk, by only interpreting it as a metaphor, of taking away the power of the word. "Rapio" is an incredibly common word in Latin.
It's possible we are missing connotations of the word "rapio" because of the way we gloss over the weight of it in the context of Rape. Dealing with primary sources we always have to be wary of how we look at (and teach) the meaning of a word.
@duxfeminafacti9 concludes her discussion leading by saying that better translations of these stories would be up front about the fact that these women were raped. Call it rape, as Z.M. Packman would say. "Say the word" -@ala_Camillae
@ala_Camillae we don't talk about who is complicit in these stories. e.g. Zeus in the Homeric Hymn to Demeter arranges Persephone's abduction behind her mother, Demeter's, back. Demeter spends the rest of the hymn panicking.
Hecate comes forward to tell Demeter that she's heard it, but doesn't know anything; they go to the male gods to ask questions, and they have all the information. Complicity points to power dynamics, even among the gods.
Moreover, the Homeric Hymn to Demeter uses epithets to refer to Hades (e.g. Aidoneus); implications re: identifying your abuser when you actually don't know their name/who they really are.
The Hymn to Demeter gets right at the issue of abusers in power and the problem of trying to stand up against them. Stories also get at the heart of the difficulty/impossibility of reporting rape in the ancient world
Victims express shame after their rape, and if they report it they are often punished (e.g. Cassandra; in the Agamemnon she says she has never told it to anyone else) e.g. Lucretia, whose shame leads her to suicide.
Takeaways: call it rape, trust your students to have difficult discussions on these topics, avoid erasure of reality behind mythic/historical rape scenes, embracing and displaying your discomfort honestly. Guide discussions if they go towards a harmful place. #teachancient
