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@redhistorian I seem to fall between the two camps.
“This is political and the remedies are political” in one camp and
“Prosecute them” in the other.
“This is political and the remedies are political” in one camp and
“Prosecute them” in the other.
@redhistorian 2/. I do agree that the political consequences and standards in public life remedies should be sufficiently robust to despatch and punish lying offenders..and without resort to the ballot box or the courts.
They are not.
They are not.
@redhistorian 3/. The breaches of constitutional conventions have been flagrant, repeated and been rebuffed when drawn to not just the Speaker’s attention but also the Standards Committee
This is a shameful and very dangerous episode in our public life
Those failures have led to where we are
This is a shameful and very dangerous episode in our public life
Those failures have led to where we are
@redhistorian 4/. I, too am outraged by the sheer disdain shown to the public & extraordinary level of lying and cheating that has not been remedied even by expelling MPs concerned.
Winning votes matters. Doing so truthfully goes to the heart of decent decision making and democracy itself.
Winning votes matters. Doing so truthfully goes to the heart of decent decision making and democracy itself.
@redhistorian 5/. I say with confidence that I have prosecuted fraudsters who have lied on a lesser scale (to obtain property by deception) and with a smaller cost than those currently holding public office as MPs, MEPs, cabinet ministers have done in order to win votes.
@redhistorian 6/. In fact I favour a range of civil remedies that need some legal adjustment so that injunctions can be sought and lying hands stayed promptly.
My issues over the criminal prosecution are more to do with some technical issues re current offences as drafted.
My issues over the criminal prosecution are more to do with some technical issues re current offences as drafted.
@redhistorian 7/. Some of those have been assuaged to a degree when looking at the published reasoning of the District Judge issuing the summons. In particular Paragraph 27 onwards.
“Acting as such” (ie the campaigning role WAS also his role in public office).
judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl…
“Acting as such” (ie the campaigning role WAS also his role in public office).
judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl…
@redhistorian 8/. Once again Johnson’s big mouth provides evidence to support the contention that his rôle as a campaigner was ALSO part of his rôle as Mayor .... 
@redhistorian 9/. Many of my misgivings lie in the fact that this will be a jury trial (assuming it gets that far) made up of leavers and Remainers who will be asked to reach a unanimous verdict, being satisfied SO THAT THEY ARE SURE of every element of the offence.
Beyond reasonable doubt.
Beyond reasonable doubt.
@redhistorian 10/. A failure to reach a guilty verdict will not be neutral.
It will be cast as yet another failed attempt at an establishment stitch up.
So timing matters.
It will be cast as yet another failed attempt at an establishment stitch up.
So timing matters.
@redhistorian 11/. Be that as it may, more than anything else this reveals the entirely inexcusable lengths that people have to go to precisely BECAUSE the constitutional mechanisms are so terribly weak.
@redhistorian 12/. I feel utter scorn at the unwillingness of political parties to discipline effectively, swiftly and seriously those within their ranks when such conduct occurs.
The Parl Standards are not fit for purpose and neither is the investigatory body
That is why we are where we are
The Parl Standards are not fit for purpose and neither is the investigatory body
That is why we are where we are
@redhistorian 13/. I reject fiercely the suggestion that the answer lies in the ballot box when the scale of the offending is national (indeed international). Why should an MPs own constituents be the only people to have a say in an MP’s or MEPs removal and only years after the damage occurs?
@redhistorian I add this as I realise that people were commenting therefore (unintentionally) breaking up the thread
@redhistorian I attach two threads by @GuitarMoog that commentates on these issues of democracy and its underpinnings with such an accurate tuning fork.
threadreaderapp.com/thread/9080088…
threadreaderapp.com/thread/9080088…
@redhistorian @GuitarMoog 15/ And this too from @GuitarMoog on the very nature of democracy and why upholding standards in public life is so terribly important.
@redhistorian 14/. A reminder from @sarahwollaston that the Leave campaign knew it was a lie.
Which was one of the reasons she changed Campaign to remain.
They knew. But carried on selling the lie. Spending a fortune on it.
Which was one of the reasons she changed Campaign to remain.
They knew. But carried on selling the lie. Spending a fortune on it.
