Thread by @JakeConrad19

I’ve been contemplating lately how the plan of salvation would work for me, a gay man in the #ldschurch. Especially on the parts concerning the degrees of glory. I know that there are three. Telestial, Terrestrial, & Celestial, but often I forget that even the celestial is...

split into 3 parts also. In LDS scripture we learn that the highest degree in the celestial kingdom is for those who according to Oaks, have a hetero marriage, temple sealing, faith, repentance, baptism, Holy Ghost, & endure to the end.

Yet if you’re a faithful member & have done everything the church has asked if you except for the temple sealing part, then you’ll not obtain eternal life. According to scripture you’ll be as an angel, serving those who ascend into godhood. Still in the celestial kingdom,

... but not at the top. Often single women fear this eternal damnation (because that’s what it literally is. Anything short of the highest degree of the celestial is understood to be a form of damnation.)

They fear it & I hear members brush aside their concerns by saying things like, “you’ll just marry in the best life.” (Yeah right. I’ll just get sealed after I’m dead to some stranger just so I can use him as a pass to eternal life... F* that!)

I too worry about not obtaining the highest degree of heaven, so I sympathize with these single women I know.

I have heard in many occasions that God will not place us in a degree of heaven where we would not feel comfortable. This idea reminds me of the 7th book of the Chronicles of Narnia, in which entering heaven some beings only enter in part way & do not continue in deeper...

feeling comfortable where they have arrived at.
One big issue I have with this idea is that I wouldn’t be comfortable with that. How could I be happy knowing that I essentially failed? That I’m damned to this degree of heaven & cannot inherit eternal progression.

How would you feel knowing that you’ve done your best & yet it wasn’t good enough & so you get to be an angel & serve others that are essentially ‘better than you’ for eternity?
I hope that this isn’t God’s plan of happiness for me! I certainty wouldn’t be happy.

And there is even a whole other degree, the lowest of the Celestial kingdom, that the scriptures don’t even talk about! It mentions its existence but other than that it focuses on the highest degree.

I want to ask questions like, “why is homosexual sex & marriage inherently a sin? Why inherently? What harm does it do? I’m aware that heterosexual sex & marriage bring forth offspring & thus more children are born into the world...

& God’s plan of happiness can continue. But there are so many children without parents that an lgbt couple could adopt & raise. They can fulfill the role of parents just any anyone can. People say God is against homosexual actions but not homosexual people. But why?

“Why would God be against a form & expression of love?”
I got to thinking, “what happens when all of God’s spirit children are born into the world & there are no spirits left? Will becoming pregnant become impossible or all pregnancies end as miscarriages?”

Another thought I had; ‘Maybe gay marriage is banned only in this life. God requires their children to be born, so homo marriage is banned in this life. But in the next life no one is going to be born, so what if God then allows all their children to marry & be sealed as they...

... please.’ Just a thought.

Today it was stated that gender is eternal, & that our spirits in the pre earth life have gender. Oaks stated that they were male & female. This I do not agree with. As mere spirits we did not have bodies, thus possessing no sexual characteristics. We couldn’t be make or female.

But we could be masculine & feminine. Not segregating those personalities to either “sex”. A spirit can possess both masculinity & femininity. I know this is true because we as humans can possess both simultaneously.

I believe this because masculinity & Femininity are not tied to physical sex or even to gender. Meaning, (My sex is male, my gender is male, but regardless I still can & do have a feminine personality/traits.)

What are your thoughts on some of my questions & ideas?

I’ve heard many (straight) people say that being gay is just a trial, a test from God to prove our worthiness & devotion. If we stay true to the church teachings & remain celibate then we’ll be fine!

A few problems I have with this. First, being gay is only a trial because society, my society, my culture, my own church & family make it that way. Sometimes people are so vile and there isn’t even a reason for it.

If being gay is a test then why is the reward still less than the reward for straight people in the church? As a celibate ‘unsealed man’ I have no hope to obtain the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. So even if I “pass this test” I’d still fall short of others.

This tells me that being gay isn’t a test or trial from God. Part of it can be, but that isn’t the reason why God created me this way. God wouldn’t create me to fail, to come up short & so far as the church doctrine teaches that is what will happen to me regardless of how worthy

... I am. I’m still dependably on a temple sealing to a woman in order to get eternal life, eternal happiness, otherwise I become as an angel. I’d be sad angel, knowing I did my best & followed the church yet still failed to marry a woman.

I’ve found the being gay isn’t much a trial. It’s more like a blessing. As. Minority I see the world differently. My participation, my existence, adds diversity to the church & to the world.

My sexuality isn’t just about sex. It’s a part of my personality. It’s part of who I am, & I wouldn’t never change that.

I also don’t believe that God will reward me in the resurrection with a “cured” mind. That I’ll be straight. I’ve told my friends once, “if you meet me in heaven & I’m straight & happy about it then it’s not really me. I’d be very angry to lose a part of myself that isn’t sin.

Here’s part of a DM I had on this subject.
I read CS Lewis often & in his sci-fi series he makes an allegory of Adam & Eve. & another ‘Adam & Eve’ in another world. He explains how the same God would give certain commandments to one couple that wouldn’t apply to the other.

It’s hard to explain but it’s really had me thinking. God has a commandment for this life & then can add to it or diminish it in the next life. They did it for the Hebrews with their commands of worship, which changed once Jesus came. He fulfilled them.

So perhaps when Jesus comes again he won’t charge our current commandments, he’ll fulfill them & allow us all to partake of the atonement in full. Allow same sex marriages & dealings, his “earthly law” would be fulfilled & the “heavenly law” would begin.
Just some thoughts