Thread by @nymphomachy

Okay, so, in this previous thread I unpacked a little of why Peter Parker finds Spider-Gwen impossibly aggravating.

Now, here's a thread about how Gwen's character arc, starting from her debut appearance, reflects a steadily increasing disdain for Pete

https://twitter.com/nymphomachy/status/1021442038720446465

So, fresh out of Seanan McGuire's excellent Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, we have this panel, which reflects the PRESENT state of Gwen's feelings about Peter Parker.

The Peter in this panel is not 616 Peter (indeed, he does not even love Gwen romantically) but she's pissed at him

(I'll explain a LITTLE of what's going on in this panel later on, but people should REALLY just read the comic. It came out on Wednesday. Buyyyy it.)

Anyway, no matter how you look at it, this is a REALLY abrupt departure for a character who regarded HER Peter Parker as a BFF.

So, considering how much Gwen lamented the death of "her" Peter, how did we get here?

Well, in order to get into this, we have to keep in mind what purpose Spider-Gwen was initially designed for, and how she was originally envisioned

It wasn't as Latour/Rodriguez's punk rocker.

Spider-Gwen was thought up by Dan Slott, specifically for the Spider-Verse event, which was otherwise a celebration of all the weird extradimensional Spideys that had been cooked up over the past 50 years.

She, like some other characters, was brand-new, or "original generation".

Spider-Gwen's entire existence pretty much revolved entirely around the idea that "here's a Gwen Stacy that feels the way about Peter Parker the way that Peter Parker feels about Gwen Stacy."

That was it. That was the whole premise. She was NOT meant to be a complex character.

For comparison here's the other Spider-Verse original character who really had something to do with themselves in the metaplot, Spider-UK, whose entire concept is "What if Captain Britain were a Spider-Man?"

(He doesn't have the powers of Captain Britain btw. He's just British.)

So, looking at Spider-UK's (frankly kinda boring and lazy) design, keep in mind that when Slott imagined Spider-Gwen, he initially just imagined her superhero outfit as being her iconic "Brooklyn Bridge" outfit from The Night Gwen Stacy Died, just with, like, webs and colors.

Basically, he was not only going to put Spider-Gwen in CIVILIAN CLOTHES, but civilian clothes that EXPLICITLY CENTERED GWEN STACY'S FRIDGING as the single most remarkable thing about her.

Because—again—this was not supposed to be a deep well. This was supposed to be a GIMMICK.

Everybody remembers Spider-Gwen as the breakout character of Spider-Verse, but she wasn't intended to be. If Spider-Verse was about "making" anybody, it was Cindy Moon, aka Silk, who had a pivotal role in that story (and sadly isn't in the sequel event, Spider-Geddon, whatsoever)

So, what changed?

Well, before SPIDER-VERSE came out, we had EDGE OF SPIDER-VERSE, which was basically a bunch of self-contained stories by teams who weren't doing anything for the event proper.

Gerard Way, of My Chemical Romance fame, wrote one of them, SP//DR and it rules)

EDGE OF SPIDER-VERSE #2, better known as Spider-Gwen's official debut, was made by Latour and Rodriguez.

And based on what they made, it sounds like they were told "write a story about a Gwen Stacy who became Spider-Woman and who lost Peter Parker" and NOTHING ELSE. AT ALL.

What they made was this.

A character with a costume that, strictly speaking, was way, way, way too awesome to be wasted on a one-shot gimmick character who would likely never appear again after Spider-Verse.

Before the event even started, people made that abundantly clear.

And then, the Gwen Stacy that Latour/Rodriguez WROTE was entirely different from the Gwen Stacy that died on the Brooklyn Bridge.

She's almost a decade younger, for one, and her entire story arc has an EXTREMELY Scott Pilgrim vibe to it.

This is getting long-winded so for the sake of brevity I'm NOT going to summarize the issue. It's legendary; you can find a summary anywhere.

But the main takeaway should be: Gwen's a young punk rocker and while she deeply laments Pete's death, she did NOT love him romantically.

So, what's interesting about this is that, outside of Gwen's costume design (which was probably one of the earliest steps in SPIDER-VERSE's development), the event itself—which you will remember, was developed entirely separate from EDGE OF SPIDER-VERSE—uses NONE of this Gwen.

This is Gwen's first appearance in SPIDER-VERSE proper, written by Slott (note the title, which lampshades the popularity that preceded her).

Her first action is to address Kaine (a Peter clone) as "handsome", something flirty that is very IC for 616 Gwen but OOC for Spider-Gwen

You see more of this flirtiness here in the next issue (by the same team). Note the flirtiness and physical intimacy between Pete and Gwen in the first pic.

For comparison, the second pic is a representation of what Gwen's relationship actually was with the Peter of her world.

I need to stress again here, the pics I'm providing from AMAZING SPIDER-MAN—the core section of the SPIDER-VERSE event—are pretty much the *only* interactions Gwen has with Peter, because she, again, was not intended to be a major character in this story. She really wasn't.

Probably, SPIDER-VERSE, being the most important part of the event, was fully scripted out long before EDGE OF SPIDER-VERSE (which was really just a nice extra), so despite featuring the Rodriguez design, Gwen here is very much a reflection of Slott's Brooklyn Bridge concept.

There were no plans for a Spider-Gwen series, so there was no pressing need to reconcile these characterizations.

So we have a Gwen Stacy that is saccharine and even vaguely moony towards Peter, and since this is all still canon, this is the most amenable to Pete she ever gets

So, that aside, what happens to Gwen in this event?

Well, as you saw earlier, the first thing that happens is that Kaine freaks out, and accuses Gwen of being a clone. (This will happen many more times.)

When Pete sees her for the first time, all he says to her is "Gwen?!"

They don't have a conversation after that, so the very next thing to happen between them is for 616 Pete to absolutely FLIP HIS SHIT when Spider-UK tries to take her on a mission and demand she stay behind, without any explanation, because he's afraid of her dying again

Cindy Moon pulls some stupid shit and a lot of Spiders wind up dying, and the next thing Gwen witnesses is Peter Parker literally trying to lead a coup against HIMSELF. Not even an alt-self, but literally his own self from a different part of the timeline.

(Actually Doc Ock)

So after a brief scene in which, in the midst of spider-eating vampires slaughtering every spider in the Multiverse, Peter Parker wins a dick-waving contest AGAINST HIS OWN DICK, Peter finally relents and agrees to take Gwen on an important mission, apologizing for being a jerk.

(What happens next is not really important to Gwen's relationship to Pete, though it is very important to her relationship to Jessica Drew and Cindy Moon).

One other thing happens before the conclusion of the story, which probably happened before all this but it's not clear.

In a sidestory, Spider-Gwen is sent (probably by the alt-Ezekiel who was running the squad before Pete arrived) to a dimension where Peter Parker completely lost his mind from the guilt over Gwen's death and became the Green Goblin.

Rather than come with Gwen and join the organized fight against the Inheritors, Goblin!Pete decides to bum rush Verna, literally (and pointlessly) suicide-bombing her in an effort to "atone" for losing his Gwen by sacrificing himself here

Making Gwen's whole trip pointless.

Okay. So. Many, MANY issues later, we get to the end of SPIDER-VERSE, which involves the Spider-Army charging into the Inheritors' home dimension, Loomworld, to finish them once and for all.

Jess and Gwen have been there the whole time, and they're fighting a swarm of Goblins.

(Part of Verna's shtick is that she enslaves multiple versions of Spider-Man's archenemies from other dimensions and sics them on her prey. They all wear muzzles—it's some BDSM shit.

She has squads of Vultures, Goblins, and Kravens, which she calls "hounds".

So now you know.)

In the midst of all this, the Spider-Army pops in. Pete sees Gwen fighting a Green Goblin and loses his shit, demanding they "rescue" Gwen.

Gwen is EXTREMELY pissed about Peter making her fight about himself and finally calls him out, after which he backs off.

(Goblin ded.)

After the Inheritors are defeated, Doc Ock-as-Pete pulls some supervillain shit and Normal Pete has to stop him. Gwen just leaves. (Notably UK remarks about her "returning before band practice", making this the only time here that Slott references the Latour characterization.)

(As an aside, I like Gwen's hair in these panels MUCH more than the very short look she has for just about every appearance after this aside from Clone Conspiracy.

That's a whole other thing—I just hate "being punky/being heroic means having short hair" as a trope)

So, that's basically Gwen's debut appearance in a nutshell.

You might glean from what I have provided that literally EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER Gwen has with Pete involves him being an erratic, emotionally vampiric asshole who cannot act like a sensible person in her presence!

Huh!

So, after this, we get a Spider-Gwen series (because OF COURSE we get a Spider-Gwen series. She was really, really, popular.)

The first series is in her own dimension so the only thing you need to keep in mind is that she's seen as criminally responsible for Peter's death.

Five issues in, the series ends when Gwen's ENTIRE DIMENSION is destroyed in an Incursion and everyone dies, because Hickman had the idea to destroy the entire multiverse for SECRET WARS II a little while before Slott had the idea to celebrate it for SPIDER-VERSE.

Sayonara Gwen.

Just kidding.

When Dr. Doom assembles Battleworld, he puts an amnesiac Spider-Gwen on it, in a sector that is modeled around 616!Parker's life, but in which he is mysteriously absent.

Gwen is forced to navigate a facsimile of the world in which she is already dead.

(Peter and Miles got on a liferaft before the final Incursion and did not have to go through this particular mindfuck.)

There's a Peter on this Shard of Battleworld, and he lost his powers due to shenanigans, but the entire series is still about fighting his rogues gallery.

This is kind of a self-contained story, but it's notable for A) Gwen being subjected to yet another world where EVERYTHING IS ABOUT PETER PARKER, and B) Gwen meeting most of who will eventually become the Web Warriors, with Mayday coming on after Secret Wars ends.

(However. There is ANOTHER Spider-Gwen on Battleworld, who has a miniscule but memorable role.

She lives on Arcadia, an Amazonian utopia of mostly superheroines.

When it gets invaded by Marvel Zombies, we have a brief scene of Gwen rescuing MJ, revealing... well, have a look.)

After Secret Wars, things start to get VERY nonlinear, with Spider-Gwen starting both in SPIDER-GWEN (Vol 2) and in WEB WARRIORS, but I'm going to stick to mentioning that which pertains to her perception of Peter specifically.

WEB WARRIORS was, sadly, too good for this earth.

RADIOACTIVE SPIDER-GWEN #1 reveals a lot of badness we didn't know about Gwen Stacy's Peter.

In a nutshell, Peter was Gwen's lifetime best friend, but he had grown up to be an incel. Really.

He basically turned himself into The Lizard out of anger that Harry asked Gwen to prom.

Gwen Stacy visits Aunt May and Uncle Ben (Earth 65 is a world where ALL the famous fridged characters are alive, not just Gwen—her dad, Ben, Frank Castle's family, Peggy Carter, etc).

Aunt May reveals that even SHE was really horrified by who Peter had become before his death.

The thing about this very Columbine-esque characterization is that it's NOT EVEN THAT OFFBEAT. Like, yes, part of the appeal of Spider-Gwen as a character is that her world is strikingly different from 616, but this Pete is very similar to the "I'LL SHOW YOU GUYS!" Pete from 1962

Okay, so, as we're learning about how much of a god damn mess Gwen's Pete was, we also learn that—in a nod to her experience on Battleworld—she's becoming haunted by Pete's Gwen.

If you read through my previous thread, you know that this will pay off.

(pics are on 616)

And by this point, Spider-Gwen has already become extremely conscientious of how rarely Gwen survives in any universe, because she's been to a LOT of other dimensions with the Web Warriors and seen so for herself.

Increasingly, we've been beginning to see how much it bothers her

(And in ALL of the universes where she dies, it's connected to Pete.)

Fortunately, Jessica Drew—who has become Gwen Stacy's mentor, and yes, it is EXACTLY as awesome as it sounds—sets her straight a little, summing up better than anyone why 616 Gwen's fridging was a tragedy.

Okay, so the climax of this PARTICULAR arc of Gwen Stacy's navel-gazing is Harry Osborn (who joined SHIELD and became... ripped) becoming the Green Goblin and hunting down Spider-Gwen to take revenge on her for Peter's death.

After that, Gwen gets to stop worrying about him.

The storylines after this are mostly about Gwen's relationship with Cindy and Jess (which I love!) and then a crossover with Miles Morales that ships them REALLY hard (which is... okay I guess, I'm not super enthusiastic about it).

But then we get to CLONE CONSPIRACY.

CLONE CONSPIRACY is not a Spider-Gwen story. It is a Peter Parker story. It is 𝓋𝑒𝓇𝓎 𝓂𝓊𝒸𝒽 a Peter Parker story. But Spider-Gwen happens to be in it, mostly because it would be vexingly bizarre if she weren't.

But really, this is more of a Parker-ception than SPIDER-VERSE.

So, part of the problem with summing up DEAD NO MORE: THE CLONE CONSPIRACY is that it deals with material and themes pertaining to the "Clone Saga" a THREE-YEAR-LONG storyline in the nineties that, itself, was a continuation of a long clone storyline from the mid-seventies.

The only reason why Spider-Man's clones are not the single most complicated thing in Marvel Comics history is because Scott Summers' family tree is a thing and Chris Claremont is... prodigious.

So I'm just going to let this single panel sum up the entire Clone premise.

(Okay, it's getting late so I'm tapping out. Once we get through CLONE CONSPIRACY we're almost done; I'll finish this thread in the morning.)

Okay, I just reread CLONE CONSPIRACY and it's almost too much to talk about. So, since this thread is about Spider-Gwen, we're just going to only talk about those story elements that concern her.

So, Gwen Stacy, as one of the Web Warriors, has been flitting from one dimension to the next for a long time now. She's seen a LOT of dimensions, and even though Pete has been recently killed in most of them, the Petes she DOES encounter are full Nicolas Cage levels of batshit

And as she will soon see, the MAIN Peter Parker is a Nicolas Cage, too!

See, Kaine, recently revived after his untimely demise in SPIDER-VERSE, has been traversing dimensions, and found that an enormous preponderance of them have descended into full-on zombie apocalypses.

Now, these zombies aren't afflicted by the Gospel of Hunger, which is the superhero-targeting virus responsible for the Marvel Zombies. These zombies have the Carrion Virus, a pathogen normally associated with the Jackal, who is responsible for most of Peter's clone-related woes.

These various ruined dimensions are all too far gone to determine where the outbreak originated, but the common thread in all of them is that they all involve Parker Industries, the corporation that Peter is running at the time. So, Spider-Man's company is probably responsible.

(Can we take a moment to appreciate this? The Gospel of Hunger has ruined multiple dimensions, but it's actually the SAME virus, creating portals to cross into untainted worlds.

Peter's ruined MORE alt-Earths than that, and each time it was a totally sui generis occurrence.)

Now, in between these dimension dives, Kaine's been squatting in Loomworld—former headquarters of the Inheritors, now the nexus of the Web Warriors—like the homeless weirdo he is, not telling the Warriors themselves.

Spider-Gwen finally catches him skulking and sneak attacks him

Of course, since they're both good guys, the misunderstanding is quickly cleared up, and Kaine explains to Gwen that he's trying to figure out how to prevent the Carrion Virus from spreading to other dimensions.

Gwen, ofc, is in, because stopping dimensional crises is her thing.

Now, up to this point, Gwen's just kind of passively accepted that 616-Peter has a bunch of clones running around with even more baggage than he does without really interrogating it.

Finally, she has it explained to her that the Jackal's been pervily cloning her alt-self. A lot.

So, of course, the very next thing she sees, in yet another Carrion-infested dimension, is Peter Parker (an alt-version, but a very very close one) working directly with Dr. Miles Warren, aka the Jackal, to cure the Carrion contagion.

(They fail, and are not long for this world)

This investigation yields fruit; it turns out that every Carrion outbreak begins when Parker Industries begins collaborating with New U Technologies to clone new organs for the sick.

Kaine and Gwen are immediately informed the cycle has begun again, this time on the "main" Earth

Now, the thing about New U Technologies—I'll just get right to the point—is that it's a company run by a newly evil Ben Reilly, who, if you're not familiar, was Peter Parker's first successful clone (Kaine was the flawed prototype), who became Spider-Man for a while until he died

(You may have noticed Ben way above; that was a Ben from an alternate dimension, who died during SPIDER-VERSE. Yes, this shit is complicated.)

Ben's reemerged now, having survived being murdered and resurrected by Miles Warren so many times that it drove him monstrously insane.

Warren, y'see, discovered a form of cloning that effectively uses magic to create clones of people with their entire memory, right up to the moment they died, no matter how little of them is left intact.

Ben overthrows him and uses the technique to bring EVERYONE back to life.

Literally, everyone. All the people whose lives Spider-Man failed to save. Even the villains. ESPECIALLY the villains.

Ben thinks of it as a gift—he's "wiping every single drop of blood off his hands".

They degenerate, though, if they don't take his medication on a daily basis.

So, obviously, Earth-616 Gwen Stacy—the one who died on the Bridge—gets brought back to life as well, and unlike the many, MANY knockoff clones created before, this one's the real deal.

If she doesn't have continuity of self with her past self, she certainly thinks she does.

So, for all intents and purposes, Original Flavor Gwen Stacy is back to life. She has to take the anti-degeneration meds, but she's back. And she, becoming a believer in the anti-deathist ideal of the New U project, becomes one of the major executives at the company.

This makes her an ideal kidnapping candidate, so Spider-Gwen puts on a duplicate of the classic Brooklyn Bridge duds, kidnaps Classic!Gwen, and takes her place in the company to do investigative work.

(Slott FINALLY got a chance to put Spider-Gwen in the outfit he wanted!)

So, for the nonce, Spider-Gwen pretends to be Classic!Gwen. With the bowels of New U made accessible to her, she walks the facilities and confirms that, yes, it is indeed a human zoo made out of Peter Parker's emotional frailties.

Because that's very normal!

Shortly thereafter, Peter Parker—who does not yet know any of this, and has detected something very weird about all the people who New U miraculously cured and returned to society—invades the New U facility to figure out what's going on

He finds a clone of the Jackal and freaks

He chases Dr. Warren into a boiler room, and finds... Gwen Stacy! Resurrected!

Intriguingly, unlike every other fake Gwen Stacy he's ever encountered, this one DOESN'T trigger his Spider-Sense. Could this be the REAL Gwen Stacy?

(Of course not; it's Spider-Gwen, femming it up.)

Peter Parker gets jumped by Doc Ock—ALSO recently back from the dead—and gets mad, accusing Spider-Gwen of being "just another Gwen Stacy clone", which manages to get under her skin, even if she's still in character as a literal cloned Gwen Stacy.

But then things settle down.

Ben—incognito as a new iteration of the Jackal—comes out and calls everyone off. (Remember, he needs Pete's cooperation to complete his agenda, so he's being amiable.)

As they move to take him on a tour, Pete asks Gwen why she's not triggering his Spider-Sense, because lol.

Ben is sure to show Pete all the nice people he's brought back to life, including the deceased wife and son of The Lizard, and all those dead villains I showed you earlier, but also Jean DeWolff, Captain Stacy, and Dr. Kafka, all big-time fridged Spidey supporting characters.

Pete, who doesn't believe that any of these people are the real deal, flips out and pretty much accuses Jackal of creating a ghoulish roller-coaster ride through his regrets

Jackal argues he's REHABILITATING the villains, because as long as they need the pills they're on a leash

As they're continuing to argue past each other, a very random thing happens, as Captain Stacy finally has a good look at Spider-Gwen and realizes she's not the Gwen he knows!

(As you may recall, Spider-Gwen is somewhere between five and ten years younger than the "true" Gwen)

Anyway, that leads to this sequence, which I suggest we just sit back and appreciate for a moment.

Gwen and Pete escape into the vents, and thus we have our first direct interaction between Spider-Gwen and 616!Pete since SPIDER-VERSE.

You may remember that back then Peter was pretty concerned with Gwen! And Gwen was, thanks to Slott's writing, at least amenable to Pete!

Well, this time, despite going out of her way to help HIS dimension, Peter is actually kind of a dick to her. I mean, DELIBERATELY this time, not just because he's a basket of complexes.

The Lizard pursues them, and Gwen makes a remark about the irony. Pete doesn't appreciate it

As Peter and Gwen escape the New U facility, Peter woundedly asks Gwen why, if she's out hanging with Jessica Drew all the time, she never pops in to say hi to HIM?

Y'know, just the guy who acted like a maniac around her and second-guessed everything she did during SPIDER-VERSE?

(FOR THE RECORD! Jessica Drew doesn't like Peter Parker that much either.

The list of super-powered women who can put up with Spider-Man's shit is actually a whole lot shorter than you'd think!)

Anyway, Gwen and Peter manage to escape New U's various sentries, and Gwen fills Peter on some of what she and Kaine have uncovered.

She pointedly avoids telling him why they didn't bring him in earlier—because his allying with Ben is going to destroy the world.

Peter detects that there are trust issues between them—and there are, not simply because Gwen knows that he's the fulcrum upon which the end of humanity depends, but because Gwen has literally never, not in her entire life, met a healthy, well-adjusted Peter Parker.

We also get this understated but revelatory interaction, in which Peter inquires with Spider-Gwen if "the REAL Gwen is out there".

He quickly corrects himself, but just hold on to that moment for now.

So, when they arrive at Horizon Labs to rendezvous with Kaine, they find the entire facility set ablaze. Kaine's been kidnapped by the Jackal's horde of villain-slaves, who have also recovered Classic!Gwen.

Peter calls Gwen out about her and Kaine keeping him in the dark.

So, Gwen decides to spill the beans to him, and he's like THIS CANNOT BE.

Then Kingpin rolls up, having gotten pissed at Jackal for desecrating his wife's remains to generate a clone (which Kingpin killed). He's been tailing Jackal, and knows his current whereabouts.

Gwen thinks Kaine and co. are being held at a second New U facility she knows about, and thinks the best move is for them to head out there, guns blazing, and rescue him.

Peter, in what has become routine for Gwen by now, shouts at her that he knows better, and goes to chase Ben

So, Gwen goes off on her own, and makes her way to Haven, which is basically a New U housing community for the recently-resurrected, suburban homes and all.

Peter goes to fight Ben, who reveals himself to Pete, I'm gonna skip over all that, they eventually make it to Haven too

Spider-Gwen's role in the story fades at this point.

There's an encounter between Peter Parker and the HIS Gwen, where he basically sabotages his OWN chances at having Gwen back, but it's not germane to Spider-Gwen's attitudes towards him, so I might just make it its own thread

But there's one more moment we gotta talk about, and that's Ben Reilly's Brief Interlude of Unabashed Ableism! It's relevant, you see, because A) he's a clone of Pete, and B) Gwen's there in the vents to witness the whole thing!

So while all this other stuff is going on, Dr. Anna Marie Marconi (a brilliant scientist and former lover of the Superior Spider-Man) have been working with Otto Octavius and the Miles Warren clones to discover a cure for the clones' cellular degeneration.

This team has, independently of the other project, developed a "Proto-Clone", a kind of flawless template body that can be customized to suit anyone's desires.

Ben tells Anna that if her plan to cure the clones' degeneration works, she's welcome to transfer her mind into it.

Now, I've buried the lede here a little: Anna is a woman with dwarfism.

Effectively, Ben Reilly is openly trying to tempt her by promising to cure her of her disability.

Anna does not take it well, and it is this casual ableism that actually leads to the clones getting killed.

Okay, I'm going to skip over a lot of this, but effectively: all the clones die because Villain-Sue Doc Ock has a tantrum over Ben's casual ableism.

Classic!Gwen dies AGAIN (and we WILL do a thread about that), and Spider-Gwen does heroic stuff, as does Silk, who's... been there

Talked about this in the last thread, but we'll go over it again real quick:

While mourning Gwen (who was in point of fact his REAL Gwen, even though Pete stubbornly refused to accept this), Spider-Gwen tries to offer comfort and he tells her to fuck off

https://twitter.com/nymphomachy/status/1021450548938268672

Remember that not even a few hours earlier in story time, Pete was bitching at Gwen for not ever saying hi to him? Well, here we have Gwen going up to him to say "hi", and Peter telling her to not do that exact thing.

Peter has literally never not been an asshole to Spider-Gwen.

What I didn't show in the last thread was the following sequence, in which, as Spider-Gwen and Kaine part ways, she reveals to him just how bothered she is by how Peter had treated her.

Kaine, who himself knows a little something about being seen as derivative, reassures her.

So, that wraps it up for CLONE CONSPIRACY.

I should note, upon a reread, I'm actually a lot more resolved to this storyline than I was when I wrote the last thread. It's not nearly as exciting as SPIDER-VERSE, but it's way more effective as a study of why Peter is horrible

So now we're back to RADIOACTIVE SPIDER-GWEN, specifically the parts I mentioned where Spider-Gwen travels to the Earth-616 of the past and ends up saving Classic!Gwen's life.

I may have implied that "Gwen saved Gwen" was only true in a meta sense, but I was lying. It's textual

So, knowing that meeting Spider-Gwen is what sends her on her own hero's journey, the 617!Gwen Stacy of the future messes with (Venomized!) Spider-Gwen's dimensional watch right before she's about to murder Matt Murdock, and sends her into the Earth 616 of the past.

Complicated?

Classic!Gwen takes Spider-Gwen to get a bite to eat, and—for the umpteenth time, asks Spider-Gwen if she is a clone, but at least it's in a much more polite "please don't be a clone!" kind of way.

The latter, for her part, is emotionally overwhelmed by the thought of her death.

After a few minutes of this, she can't bear the anxiety of knowing that the person in front of her is doomed to die, and she rushes off in a vain attempt to get Reed Richards' help to escape this dimension.

Reed Richards proves worthless, because doesn't he always?

A while later, the Peter Parker of 1970 is at Gwen's place trying to keep her company and provide emotional support for her after her father's death, but she's still shook from the encounter with Gwenom and not really feeling it.

Gwenom waits for him to fuck off, then pops in.

Gwenom, having watched the entire exchange between Classic!Gwen and Peter, remarks what we already knew, but Slott didn't know when he wrote SPIDER-VERSE: the idea of a Peter Parker as romantic interest is very strange to her, because she never had any feelings like that herself.

Gwenom explains her situation to Classic!Gwen, and we get to the little exchange I mentioned last time, which pretty much epitomizes how Gwen has come to feel about Peter Parker after SPIDER-VERSE and CLONE CONSPIRACY.

Everything is always about him.

pbs.twimg.com/media/Di0BI41W…

I already mentioned what happens here, so I'm not going to repeat myself, but one thing I didn't bring up before is that the key to escaping Earth-617 and getting back to her world is to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge at a great height, opening a weak point between the dimensions.

This is probably what "satisfies" the requirement for a Gwen Stacy to behave in such a manner, liberating 617!Classic!Gwen from having to die that way herself.

Basically, in a very metaphysical sense, Gwenom takes the bullet of destiny for her, and maybe even herself.

That's it for RADIOACTIVE SPIDER-GWEN in terms of unpacking the relationship between Gwen and Peter.

Now we're on to more current events with SPIDER-GEDDON.

So, the conceit of SPIDER-GEDDON is that Doc Ock's come up with a plan to become immortal by combining the cloning technology salvaged from the Inheritors from SPIDER-VERSE with the Jackal's New U cloning tech from CLONE CONSPIRACY.

...This winds up FREEING the Inheritors.

Basically, Peter Parker/Doc Ock is the only ship that ever makes sense, because they're THE two characters who reliably show up to make everything worse.

So, Spider-Gwen and the Web Warriors pop in to do damage control, and in the process a lot of Spiders wind up dying.

Verna pulls Gwen in for a killshot, but it turns out that Gwen's not as edible as she once was since bonding with the Venom symbiote.

(There weren't Venoms during SPIDER-VERSE for this very reason, though Venoms wound up similarly getting consumed by Poisons during VENOM-VERSE.)

Before this fight can come to any kind of resolution, Doc Ock's cloning base self-destructs, and Gwen manages to use her dimensional watch to port out right before Verna steals it off her wrist, leaving her marooned in a different universe without a clear way back. Happens a lot.

This brings us to SPIDER-GWEN: GHOST-SPIDER!

Regaining her bearings, Gwen quickly determines she's not in a dimension she's ever been to before, which is problematic, to say the least.

She knows that she needs to seek out a technical genius to engineer a way back for her.

She heads for Oscorp (in her dimension, the Osborns are actually decent people, so she doesn't have the aversion to Oscorp one might expect), but unfortunately it's totally trashed.

All she gets for her trouble is a tussle with the local Green Goblin, who is not overtly welcoming, to say the least.

However, the fight is interrupted by someone, and the Goblin absconds as the newcomer approaches.

It turns out to be the local (surprisingly hot!) Peter Parker, and Gwen Stacy is NOT THRILLED, to say the least, immediately thinking to herself "I don't want this".

I feel like we could talk at length about that single line, all on its own: "I don't want this".

This is a line that carries the weight of every Peter Parker-related misfortune that's befallen her since SPIDER-VERSE.

She's stressed right now, and dog-tired of Peter's bullshit.

Let's review: literally every title up to this point has been about Gwen going on the cross for Peter.

SPIDER-VERSE is about the Inheritors, who mostly have a grudge against Peter Parker.
WEB WARRIORS was about her filling in for all the dead Peters the Inheritors devoured.

RADIOACTIVE SPIDER-GWEN was about her being hunted like a dog by the police and by an endless number of black-ops goons to answer for the crime of killing Peter Parker.

CLONE CONSPIRACY was about watching Peter Parker go up against Kaine Parker and Ben Parker whilst playing God

SPIDER-GEDDON is about Doc Ock, who is only alive because Peter Parker taunted him before sending him to his death, inhabiting a cloned body of Peter, and then using technology derived from Peter Parker's exploits to free the Inheritors, killing all of Gwen's non-Peter friends.

Oh, and a part that I didn't mention earlier: the gap in publishing between RADIOACTIVE SPIDER-GWEN and SPIDER-GWEN: GHOST SPIDER is because Gwen has literally been serving a *prison sentence* for the crime of killing Peter Parker.

Like, she *genuinely* served a lot of time.

So, when she gets marooned in a new dimension and IMMEDIATELY a Peter emerges from the wings to have emotions in her general direction, Gwen's first thought is "I don't want this".

While 616!Peter doggedly clings to his idea of Gwen, Spider-Gwen just wants to be FREE of Peter

Gwen ALSO knows that this givers her some sway over Peter, and, despite how unpredictable he is, she resolves to take advantage of it.

She doesn't reach out because she trusts him, or believes their friendship transcends dimensions.

She's cynically exploiting her power over him

Of course, it works.

Gwen is very pointedly NOT interested in performing the emotional labor this stratagem is going to require from her, though, because if she's learned anything by now, reaching out to Peter Parker is like reaching out to a black hole. At BEST, he lashes out

Gwen thinks to herself "I don't have time for this".

Remember, while she's out here, the Web Warriors—her TEAM—are being slaughtered by the Inheritors (who are Death of Superman-level powerful; during SPIDER-VERSE one of them effortlessly killed *Captain Universe*,a COSMIC hero)

Spider-UK and Spider-Noir are already dead. Both were good friends to her.

And Gwen's stuck out here, in the dimensional boondocks, getting accused by a Peter Parker of being a clone for the *millionth* time.

Doing her Lost Lenore routine.

Anyway, Spider-Gwen lays out her situation to Peter Parker and asks him as nicely as possible if he will help her.

Peter agrees to help on the basis of asking "one question", which is actually just an excuse to segue into a long exposition about his relationship to Gwen.

This is a very interesting story to *us*, the readers, because Seanan McGuire is a brilliantly talented writer! And you should see it all for yourself!

But keep in mind that Gwen doesn't *need* to know this. She has shit to do, and instead she's just listening to Peter. Again.

Gwen literally interrupts Peter during his long monologue to point out that, hey, the emotional labor of listening to him is fun and all, but she's REALLY in a hurry and needs help.

Peter's response is "Ah, I can't help you, but MY Gwen could!" and he goes right back to Gwenning

After a few more pages of this, Gwen interrupts him again, but Peter shuts her down, basically telling her that if she doesn't listen to the story, she doesn't get anything.

This is a cannier Pete than most, and he's playing an angle here.

The angle here is, Spider-Gwen is the one person who can save HIS Gwen (who is not deceased, but compromised), and this Pete informs her that nobody else can POSSIBLY help her get back to her dimension, so if she doesn't want everyone to die without her she'd better help him out.

Which brings us all the way back to this panel, from the start of the thread, where Gwen makes her feelings for Peter explicitly clear.

Because when you're Gwen, and somebody says "I won't help you, Gwen, because I love Gwen too much", what other thing is there for you to say?

And let's really just take a moment, here, to sit back and review how Gwen's feelings about Peter have evolved since her introduction, because I don't think they can be summed up in a more elegant way than this.

So, I want to take a moment to talk about this review of SPIDER-GWEN: GHOST SPIDER #2, which griped that "Gwen and the natives of this world seem overly-reluctant to help one another."

I don't think this takes into account what has HISTORICALLY happened

monkeysfightingrobots.co/review-spider-…

I don't think the Peter of this world is RELUCTANT to help Gwen; I think, to the contrary, he is ENTHUSIASTIC about helping himself, at the expense of other people.

And in light of the above, Spider-Gwen is not OVERLY reluctant, but APPROPRIATELY reluctant.

Because, if you *really* consider how Peter has come off to Spider-Gwen thus far—and you have to take into account Goblin Peter suicide-bombing someone for no reason, the myriad worlds overrun by the Carrion virus, Pete's thing with Doc Ock, etc—he looks really, really bad.

And that's disregarding the fact that the vast majority of Gwen's deaths across the universe are directly related to Peter!

(There is exactly ONE on-screen death that isn't: a version of the Age of Apocalypse Gwen who dies fighting Galactus, in a What If? comic)

I mean, it's not terribly inaccurate?

Crunch the numbers and the single greatest drain on Gwen Stacy's life, in any dimension, is Peter Parker.

Even in House of M, where she's alive and married to him, Peter is cheating on her with Mary-Jane Watson.

https://twitter.com/Ergoemos/status/1069273288906555392

So, I think that concludes my presentation!

I hope this thread has been a useful resource in showing you how, from Spider-Gwen's perspective, Peter Parker is the most astronomically disastrous mess in all the multiverse, possibly eclipsing even Scott Summers.

He's very ungood!

Thank you for coming to my TEDTalk, please buy as many Spider-Gwen comics as you can, so that I will always have more hot takes about Spider-Gwen to talk about.

Also if you guys liked this I guess I can shitpost more threads later on.