Thread by @Heliocoptero

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman See, the problem is that you're making a moral judgement based on stories that may not be conveying a pre-Christian view of Loki, at least not entirely or clearly, judging by both comparative mythology and the myths themselves. (1/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Baldr’s death is an example, since the narrative in Snorri’s Edda is internally inconsistent in various points and kennings also preserved by Snorri make more sense in Saxo’s version of the myth, where Loki is absent and Hödr is the active antagonist, not a passive tool. (2/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Though I’m not sure why you brought up the broken leg of one of Thor’s goats, since Snorri puts the blame on Thialfi. It’s only in Hymskvida 37 that Loki is accused of it, but the contradiction in sources casts doubt on his actual guilt in the mythological tradition. (3/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Regarding the construction of Asgard’s walls, Idun’s kidnapping and Sif head shave, in the end, those episodes produce Sleipnir, Skadi’s entrance into the divine community (thereby strengthening it) & the gods’ treasures, including the all-important Thor’s hammer. (4/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Details may have been different in pre-Christian versions, but there’s a common note: Loki’s shenanigans end up favouring the gods by adding to their wealth & strength. That’s the MO of the trickster: it shakes things up in a destabilizing move that's ultimately creative. (5/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman If you want to put it philosophically, stagnant life withers & dies, so the trickster breaks the status quo, stirs things up & allows for life to move forward in new, fresh forms. It can be uncomfortable, but it’s a necessary part of the fact of life that is change. (6/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Which brings us to the wider issue of why ancient communities that treasured frith would value Loki & worship him. And the answer is the definition of god, which today we tend to draw along lines of morality and justice, but that wasn't necessarily the case in the past. (7/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Ancient Europeans, of various cultures, had a complex relation with the divine. They didn’t restrict divinity and worship to what was good, pleasant, helpful, orderly and life-bringing, but recognized it also in what was dark, destructive and harmful. (8/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Sometimes, complexity got to the point of producing a paradox whereby the dutiful fulfilment of one’s religious duties resulted in impurity that had to be cleansed before normal religious practices, like honouring a sky god, could be resumed in usual fashion (9/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Roman funerary rites had that element, because while mourning and burying/cremating the dead is a duty, doing it puts you in contact with the underworld and its infernal gods, who are dangerous, destructive even, though that doesn’t make them any less divine. (10/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Complexity sometimes came in the form of apotropaic cult, whereby a Power was worshipped not because folks wanted to draw it near to bring its blessings, but to keep it at bay. The Saami, for instance, performed a sacrifice to a deity of illness to that effect. (11/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman And sometimes ancient cultures recognized divinity in powers they were uncomfortable with, but tried to “tame” them in some way. Greeks, for instance, had issues with Aphrodite’s lust, theirs being a commonly misogynistic culture, and also with Dionysus’ wildness (12/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman But that they solved by placing Aphrodite in the context of marital sex – cf. the Iliad on that - where her lustfulness would be useful for procreation, and Athenians tried to keep Dionysus content and generally contained via lavish feasts and theatrical performances. (13/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman So why would old heathens see Loki as a god? Because divinity doesn’t have to be restricted to what is good, pleasant, stable, just, constructive or life-giving. What is immoral, ambiguous, destructive, chaotic, unstable or death-bringing can be equally divine. (14/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman And you can then follow one of two ways: either an apotropaic cult to keep those deities satisfied and hence at a safe distance so as to keep the human community unharmed and safe. (15/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman Or you can keep those deities close, even if contained in some way, because despite their unpleasant, destabilizing or problematic nature, they nonetheless have a role to play in life and are of use for the community. (16/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman In Loki’s case, that role could be that of life-giving, regenerative and creative trickster. The power whose resourcefulness, even if problematic, has its advantages and at the very least you want to be on good terms with. (17/18)

@seaxneating @EPButler @Thordorygerdur @thelettuceman And I’m not even considering Loki’s hypothetical role as a god of ritual fire, assuming he’s in some way related to the Vedic Agni. As a trickster and liminal god, he’s transformative and thus, potentially, able to transfer offerings one realm to another. (18/18)