Thread by @ourchatham

@ArijitDSen and I, Adrianne Cleven, are at the historic Chatham County courthouse in Pittsboro, N.C. this evening for the Pittsboro Board of Commissioners meeting! Stay tuned for updates.

The town manager is reccommending a property tax increase to increase revenue during his budget presentation.

Says tax revenue is strong though.

Development has slowed and unemployment rate is low for Chatham.

The budget presentation wraps up with LaMontagne talking about money needed for schools, radio system, health sciences building.

Dasher thanks all the staff for their work on the budget.

Gene Brooks speaks to the board about the county's history beginning in 1771, stretching through colonial times. He discussed the Irish, Moravian and English settlers.

Brooks handed the commissioners mini-balls, presumably from the civil war before he got up to speak.

Said the African-American people who came to Chatham were mostly from elsewhere in America not imported directly from Africa.

Said in spite of the agricultural industry's prevalence in the 1800s, the county was beginning to develop some industry prowess. By 1850, Chatham was one of the leading producers of wheat across the state.

Before Brooks got up to speak, Dasher said he received several comments about how he wasn't allowed to speak at the previous meeting on the statue. His three minutes expired before he was allowed to say much.

For many years, the hogs and other livestock in Chatham county "rambled loose."

Commissioners seem to be mostly listening intently.

"People didn't make much money," Brooks says. Even those who owned land were not wealthy and depended on credit. Two of the larger economic booms of Chatham County were grist mills and the production of hog's heads.

"What about education? Well, if you lived... before the Civil War and even after, If your people had money perhaps you could have a tutor or perhaps you could go to a private academy." The whig party pushed for a public education system.

Discussed the free blacks who lived in Chatham County and a gentleman who had a degree from Princeton, spoke several languages and taught at Pittsboro academy. "At night he would teach black children the fundamentals of education."

"I have always been proud of one man who ... introduced a bill to make sure that black children had the opportunity to learn to read," Brooks says.

Brooks says horse racing, hunting and fishing were all part of life in early Chatham.

There's a Pittsboro, Indiana?! (Jeff Gordon was raised there.)

Moved on to Civil War history in the county. Chatham and most of the piedmont was a land of small farms, not large plantations.

As Brooks speaks the back of the statue is visible through the window beside him.

Brooks says "long before the hotheads started talking about secession," people in Massachusetts discussed it.

Says that North Carolina was not interested in seceding before the Civil War, and that Chatham County voted against having a secession commission.

Says baptists at the time said South Carolina's decision to secede from the Union was hasty, but that the state should not be compelled to stay in the nation.

The two parties before the Civil War were the Whig party and the Democratic Party. Says there has only been one governor from Chatham County in state history.

"It's hard for us to understand, in the era that we live in, how important state's rights were to people," Brooks said.

Begins discussing the statue in front of Pittsboro's courthouse.

"You have to have manpower to fight a war," he says. Describes a "portrait" of a Civil War soldier: boys as young as twelve. One 14 year old was named sergeant.

Says there were 11 companies raised in Chatham County at the beginning of the war. "Junior reserves" weren't supposed to leave the state, but eventually did. Says the companies were organized by counties, and saw themselves as affiliated with their counties.

The southern calvary outdid the northern calvary, "at least at first."

There's a packed house tonight in the courtroom but you could hear a pin drop.

Discussed "complex loyalties" of the conflict. Earlier in the meeting, Brooks gave the board members samples of bullets that he calls "mini balls." He explains the weaponry the soldiers used in the war.

"The casualties in this war were just horrible." Says that more young men died in the Civil War than all the other wars the country has ever fought, combined.

The 26th regiment, the largest regiment from N.C., included two companies from Chatham county. "The 26th lost more men, north or south, than any other in the civil war."

"We don't need to erase history in America ... we need to learn from it," Brooks says.

CW: violence.
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Says armies moved on from battle sites without burying their dead soldiers. 25,000 men from the north died in Confederate prisons from cold, and lack of medicine and food.

Says 7 million people died in the Civil War: more than the "terrible carnage" of two World Wars. Calls the crowd patient for listening to the history, and moves on to the history of the monument.

"I can't find where Lincoln said anything really, really ugly about any individual," Brooks said.

Discussed reconciliation, and mentions a colonel Lane, who attended a reunion at Gettysburg and shared the stage with a sniper who had led men from Michigan and Indiana.

"He was a man of reconciliation, and of compassion."

Reads a quote that was inscribed on another Confederate statue, which admonishes people to remember history.

Says that "people said some nasty things" at a past Pittsboro Board of Commissioners meeting to discuss the statue.

The Democratic party has dominated Chatham County because it has suited the people, Brooks says. He recollects hitchhiking from Greenville to Albemarle in 1960 to vote.

Applause and a standing ovation from a majority of the crowd as Brooks urges people not to forget history.

Another speaker discussed an article she found in the "Chatham News" about a group called "Chatham for All." She started a petition with another community member to keep the monument.

As she approached various community members to sign the petition, she says many complained that the Chatham County Board of Commissioners had already made up its mind about the statue.

She presents the petition to the board, which she says has 3,012 signatures. She says the removal of the monument could "open a floodgate." Some of those in attendance applaud.

Another speaker says the United Daughters of the Confederacy, which was involved in erecting the statue, is no more affiliated with the KKK than the KKK is connected to the Democratic party or any other party.

Another speaker thanks the commissioners for their involvement in the Spring Agriculture Festival and says it helped people understand how important agriculture was to the county.

"And it didn't hurt that we had beautiful weather," he said. "We're praying for that for next year, too." 🌻

He cites "limitless" possibilities of the agricultural center, including involving 4H and FFA.

We are on a 5-minute break. People are milling around talking happily.

The meeting breaks for a few minutes, then reopens to hear public comments from community members. Mike Dasher reminds the crowd to maintain "civil discourse" after some boo a community member who wanted the statue returned to the United Daughters of the Confederacy.

Robin Whittington says that "The confederates represent all races; all religions" and calls the statue a "beloved memorial." She asks the commissioners if they are going to break the law.

She thanks Chatham for All for "awakening us" (meaning those in favor of the monument) and that all eyes are on the Board of Commissioners.

Margaret Vincent publicly thanks the men she says died to protect the county during the Civil War.

Kevin Stone, a local business owner from Lee County, says the people of Chatham County erected the confederate memorial, a "literal gravestone" to honor soldiers. He makes a veiled reference to an "extremist, lawless and at-times violent political faction."

Another speaker said "white supremacy cannot be separated from the confederacy's institutions ... we have more to gain from dwelling on our common humanity than our different histories."

Another speaker, Mr. Estevez, discusses a history of African American citizens who were lynched. He says the statue was "erected to remind African Americans of their place in society."

"I love Chatham. I love this county. And I would love to see this statue returned to the UDC. And I would love to see that they feel welcomed here."

Bruce Davis, is up now.

Says all current Chatham residents have the right to speak.

Says the biggest issue is place.

Says all confederate ancestors committed treason against the United States.

"No person gets a pass for trying to break apart our United States of America."

"I do not think we should continue to honor that act of treason."

Keith Roberts references board member Karen Howard's comment from the last meeting about the monument: that the speakers in favor of the statue did not look her in the eye.

Roberts says he was nervous and was looking down at his notes at the past meeting. He urges the board to "think about what the people want."

One speaker says, "it was on a pedestal of white supremacy that the [United Daughters of the Confederacy] stood up their monument."

According to him, some have suggested travelling a different route in town to avoid the statue.

A short statement from Mary Honeycutt, who is in support of the statue's removal.

Rosaline Darling supports the statue's removal, but says she is hearing lots of "assumptions about the 'other' group, whichever the 'other' group happens to be." Says the county needs to focus on things they can agree on.

Expresses concerns that two groups have become united and in opposition to each other over the statue."This is a forward- looking county. Wouldn't it be great if we could all come together...?"

Another speaker says she represents the Winnie Davis chapter of the UDC. Thanks the Board for inviting Gene Brooks to speak at the beginning of the meeting. Says commissioners supported the statue in 1988, and asks it to remain.

Linda Briggs says the statue pays tribute to soldiers, "who paid the ultimate sacrifice for us."

The sky outside darkens as community members on both sides of the issue continue to voice their concerns. 🌇

Ronnie Lambert says a soldier's greatest fear was to be "forgotten in death." Says some community members have looked for hidden and overgrown civil war cemeteries in search of their loved ones.

He addresses the board directly: "I mean no disrespect, but none of you grew up in North Carolina." Says the monument does not mean anything personal to them.

75 out of 100 people want to keep the monument, according to a commenter.

He says he called the UDC and read the records of their formation: says "they all lost men, and they wanted that remembered; they wanted that memorialized." Says the board's job is to represent the majority.

"If you listen to the people in this county, he stays."

James Copeland, a Chatham County resident, references South Carolina's secession from the Union. Needless to say, discussions of national history have played a pivotal role in this debate.

Emily Moose says the statue was intentionally divisive from the beginning. "To my neighbors who want to honor fallen ancestors," she says, "... I do not judge you, I respect you." She supports its movement to another location.

Several community members in a row read a short, structured statement in favor of its removal.

One speaker proposes leaving the confederate statue in its place, but adding a monument to enslaved African Americans with explanatory signage.

James Ward refutes an idea of "cultural genocide" and says the anti-statue crowd has shown "self-righteous zeal" in their rhetoric. He says divisive politics starts in small towns such as Pittsboro.

At one point, a group of around a dozen pro-statue individuals were positioned outside the courthouse.

Andy Pew. Chatham farmer. Says this is his first public address. Said the conversation is an embarrassment, solving a problem that doesn't exist.

Says the UDC is a humanitarian group, not a hate group.

Invites everyone to "be the change" calls for another statue. "This is our chance to do some good and make the best of a ridiculous situation."

Barricades are up around the statue.

Next speaker says he was taught the lost cause narrative. Said the UDC campaign "perfectly complimented Jim Crow laws."

“I can tell you right now there are no winners in this,” Pam Smith says. She calls for compromise and an embrace of changes. She proposes a statue of George Moses Horton, a black poet.

“I can tell you right now there are no winners in this,” Pam Smith says. She calls for compromise and embrace of changes. Wants a statue of George Moses Horton, a black poet.

Howard Fifer addresses an argument that he’s heard: “The monument cannot be racist because I accept it and I am not a racist.” Says personal beliefs cannot change the effect that a symbol had on others.

Robin Lyons. 10-year Chatham resident. Praises other speaker who spoke about George Moses. Says want to return the statue to the UDC.

Randy Williams says people who fought for the confederacy were not treasonous. "There is a difference between secession and treason."

Says slavery ended for the "wrong reason."

"It ended because we lost the war." Says Abraham Lincoln should have allowed slavery to "fester for a few more years" before dying out in the south.

Another speaker says the Chatham County BOC should add an additional plaque to the statue to honor "all the heroes" of the civil war. Says the United States seems closer to a civil war "than we would like to admit."

Lee McLean says the statue has always made her uncomfortable.

"We're on the home stretch here," one of the officials at the front of the room says. Assuming she means the end of the public comments on the statue...

Audrey Schwankl says she lives in a world of white privilege and benefits from being white.

Discussion of the statue has stretched more than 2.5 hours long tonight.

Ms. Carnegie says the confederate flag represents white supremacy. "White Americans from the north and anywhere else ... do not have a moral high ground."

Scott Gilmore, a Chatham County resident, self-identifies as a "half breed" and references his "Scottish Irish and Cherokee Indian" lineage. He's also a veteran. Says "I didn't come back to Chatham County to find almost a civil war in my own backyard."

"We've got a beautiful statue being built in Moncure that's going to be bigger than this courthouse," he says.

He turns to face the crowd and says he's "disgusted."

He has overrun the 3-minute clock on each public comment. When commissioner Howard interrupts, he says "you will not shut me up" and cites his freedom of speech.

Allie Hanson says she supports the statue's removal. Adds a proposal: the monument's temporarily relocation until they can fund another statue that reflects history.

She says such a new monument could honor enslaved or lynched Americans, "the Chatham Rebels who fought against the confederacy," women, and the union troops.

Another speaker says the monument falls under state law. Turns to the crowd and says the burden of moving the statue will fall on taxpayers.

Adele Kelley, a Chatham County resident, begins her statement with, "I'm not an outsider."

"We need to foster inclusion for all our residents."

Mr. Leroy asks the crowd, "How many people here have been to war?"

"Maybe if more of you had been to war, you'd understand the sacrifice."

He's brought a small Bible with him to the stand. "As God is my witness, that statue needs to stay right where it's at."

That concludes public comments on the statue tonight.

Formal request from the Chatham County Republican Party to approve Ernie Wilkie's appointment for Chatham County Commissioner representing District 5.

Wilkie runs through his background. Board votes in favor of his appointment. Receives a round of applause from the crowd.

Several people clear out as the manager gives his report.

Chatham won an erosion control award for the third time since 2008.

Commissioners are now giving their updates.

Dasher thanks everyone for their input and patience to wrap up the meetings.

Meeting adjourns at 9:46 p.m.

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