Thread by @TheLeaflet_in

Day 6

Ayodhya case hearing commences.

Senior advocate C S Vaidyanathan (CSV) resumes arguments on behalf of Ram Lalla.

#AyodhyaHearing
#RamMandir
#BabriMasjid

CSV: referring Skanda Purana stating about the rituals in saryu river in the west part of ram janmabhumi, and the benefits of darshan of RJB.

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Justice Bhushan: What is the period of this purana, when was it composed.

CSV: It was composed by Ved Vyas during rime of mahabharat. It is nobody's case that it is recent, it is much older, how old is not known.

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Justice DYC: the extract you read refers to darshan of Ram Janma Bhumi and does not refer to any diety.

CSV: i am grateful, yes, the place itself is diety. Now I'll refer to something more recent, Travelogue of William Finch.

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J. DYC: He was a traveller from which country?

CSV: I'll try to verify.

Lawyer assisting CSV says he was a french traveller.

J. Bobde: William Finch doesn't sound like french.

Adv Ejaz Maqbool (other side): My lords he was an English merchant.

CSV: That sounds more likely.

CSV: This is the earliest available record.

J. Bobde: Which year did he go to Ayodhya.

CSV: (referring to exhibits) 1608-1611

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CSV: Wiliiam Foster published a book "Early Travels in India" containing accounts of 7 English travellers to India.

CJI: from where did the High Court get 1608?

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CSV: This appears to be a compendium of Travelogues. William Finch came to India during 1608-1611. This is the earliest reference to Ayodhya.

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CSV: Second is the account of Joseph Tiefenthaler. (The account refers to various buildings on the south bank of the river built by nobles in memory of Ram. One of them being the Swarg Dwar. Then refers to a temple of Ram that was demolished by Aurangzeb.

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CSV: The account also refers that by some accounts it was Babur who demolished. The account further reads that though the house where Ram was born was demolished by Aurangzeb or Babur, there still was a ritual of praying to the place by performing parikrama.)

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CSV: Now my lords he might not be a witness to demolition but he witnessed the parikrama and the kasauti pillars.

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J. Bhushan: it refers to a 5 inches high square place that is believed to be the cradle. How do you say it was in the inner courtyard.

CSV: This is not the Ram chabutra in outer courtyard but this is the cradle in the inner courtyard.

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J. DYC: Tiffenthaler seems to suggest that demolition was by Aurangzeb.

CSV: Tiffenthaler refers to two accounts one of demolition by Aurangzeb and second by Babur. For us it wouldn't matter since any way it proves that the temple existed.

#AyodhyaHearing

CSV: However for them (Muslim Parties) it is necessary since they are relying on it being a grant by Babur and are also relying on inscriptions.

J. Bobde: When was the mosque called Babri Masjid.

CSV: This was in nineteen century.

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J. Bobde: Nothing contemporaneous?

CSV: No, its all subsequent. Babri Masjid is referred in 19th century.

J. Bobde: And Baburnama is completely silent?

CSV: The relevant pages of the period of Babur's conquest in Ayodhya are missing from Baburnama.

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Senior advocate Rajeev Dhavan interjects (from other side)

Dhawan: I'll clarify everything later. The pages are missing. It is not that the Baburnama is silent on that, we know he (Babar) went to Ayodhya but the pages after that are missing.

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CSV: The third document in point of time is of 1838. Montgomery Martin...This is the first where reference of construction by Babur has been mentioned.

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CSV: Montgomery records all this on the basis of what he heard, from what belief people held. So this place is of significance to the Hindus since as they believed that this place was the place of birth or palace.

#AyodhyaHearing

CSV: My lords our approach of history is different from Europeans, they are particular about dates.

J. Bobde: The word Itihaas means how it came to pass.

CSV: Exactly. So i am not on dates but what Montgomery records is the faith of people.

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J. DYC: So by referring to these documents you are not trying to prove a fact but that it was the people's faith?

CSV: Yes

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CSV:Next document, My Lords, is the Gazetteer of 1854.

CJI: Mr. Vaidyanathan, the Documents are all denied.

CSV: But it is the gazeteer.

CJI: Yes. But you must be aware that all these documents are disputed and therefore will be taken in that light and legal effect.

#Ayodhya

CSV: Next Document is Encyclopaedia of India of the year 1858. I have made reference to 1858 but there is also reference to 1886.

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CSV: (Quoting account by P. Carnegy) Ayodhya is to Hindus what Mecca is to Muslims.

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CSV: I am relying on this to show that Ram Janmasthan was a revered place and destructing it a mosque was built and ut is still revered.

J. Bobde: What is the date of Carnegy's account.

CSV: 1870. Now i am showing Gazetteer of 1877.

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Bench rises for lunch. Hearing to resume at 2 pm.

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#RamMadir
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CSV: I have referred to relevant historical texts with regard to Ayodhya. There is also a publication, an entire book about ayodhya by Hans Baker.

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CSV: (Reading the preface)- It collects all the pre existing studies and creates a summary. It is a most considered work and I'll be referring to some pages.

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J.DYC: It seems to have been a buddhist centre around 6th Century BC also.

CSV: Yes my lords, it has been.

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CSV is referring to the book by Hans Baker to establish that during the reign of Vikramaditya almost 360 temples were built in Ayodhya and after Muslim Conquest many were demolished. The book records the first temple to be destructed was the temple of Janmabhumi. #Ayodhya

J. DYC: The evolution of events, Mr. Vaidyanathan, are quite fluid, Hinduism, Jainism and budhism, then again Hinduism and then Islam. There is no one way to trace.

#AyodhyaHearing

CSV: My lords there was a revival of hinduism after jainism and budhism. And my lords it is about the belief of the worshippers. We are looking at an area of 130ft by 80 ft and it could not have been divided in 3 parts.

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CSV Submits that is a place which is held holy and parikrama is performed, it cannot be said that since in the intervening period there used to be a mosque, both communities are in Joint Possession.

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CSV: My lords, continuity of faith and belief and continuity of worship is shown regardless of other influences, be it Budhist influences or islamic. So the faith has continued.

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CSV: My lords the Shia Waqf Board in 1945 suit has admitted that the mosque was built on birthplace of Ram.

J. Bobde: we wish to know that whether sunnis admitted it or disputed it.

CSV: they have filed an SLP against the dismissal of that suit.

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Rajeev Dhawan (from other side): The SLP is filed against the 1946 judgement that i had pointed out earlier.

J. Bobde: What we want to know is that Shia Waqf Board said Mir Baqi built the mosque, do you deny it.

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Counsel for Shia Board: Our position is clear that this mosque is a shia mosque since Mir Baqi was shia.

J.Bobde: that is not our question.

Dhawan: I'll clarify. Please see HC Judgment. If my lords want to see our stance.

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J. Bobde: Place where its constructed is not an issue.

Dhawan: My lords this is a 1945 case.

(Bench discussing)

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CSV: my lords have seen the judgment. Whether shia or sunni is another case but where it was built is not an issue.

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CSV refers to Shia Conference wherein it was said if it is proved that a temple was destructed to built babri masjid then all muslims will gladly give back mosque but if it is not proved, the place should be returned to muslims.

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CSV: Justice SU Khan referred to the position whether mosque was a valid mosque and observed that under Muslim Law no one can build a mosque on a land where no permission of owner was given and also recorded that Babur was not proved to be the owner of the land ......

...therefore, Justice Khan accepts that it was on the ruins that the mosque was built. Having said that when he says that it cannot be said that the mosque was not a valid mosque is contrary to shariat law.

Dhawan: My lords plz have a look at volume 3 page 3735. Question with regard to shia, this is the shia position that mosque was built by Mir Baqi & not upon destruction of a temple & that absence of a minaret or mosque being surrounded by temples doesn't effect sanctity of mosque

Dhawan: I am clarifying the Shia position my lords, whether it was built on ruins or not is another issue but the entire stand of shias has to be seen together and cannot be disintegrated.

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Bench rises for the day.

Hearing to resume on Friday, 16.08.2019

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