Thread by @ErazerScience

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem Whenever I mention testimonial evidence, you guys think I am taking about individual witnesses? Let me detail to you what I really mean about testimonial evidence.

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem Let's start with self evident truth. Axiomatic arguments does not need evidence first. For example, your mother exist. This is axiomatic. It is self evident. You could not have come into life else. This does not require inductive evidence and claiming that it must be tested is -

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem unscientific. Because it can be proved without induction. Next let's look at deductive logic. Similar to axiomatic arguments, deductive logic conclusions are deduced truths. It necessarily becomes true. Let's clear the difference between basic logic and deductive logic here. -

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem It is easy to misconstrue this when I talk about deductive logic. Deductive logic is based on premises, and based on those premises the conclusion is necessarily true. Example. Every unmarried man is a bachelor. Hilmee is an unmarried man. Therefore hilmy is a bachelor. Now wait,

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem Don't jump into conclusions. I am not getting into any religious stuff yet. Basic philosophy and logic. OK. So we just said 2 sources of evidence that does not require testing for validity. Now you may say, how do you verify the premises themselves. How do you know they are true.

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem This ain't a classroom, hence I can't lecture on the whole topic here on Twitter. But in summary, that's not unrelated and independent verification. They necessarily must be true to begin with, to be considered as premises in the first place. So keep it that way. Let's move on

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem 2 sources, without induction can be proved. Let's go to the main source that we all talk about, and all ya guys shout out loud as the only source you accept as evidence. Based on my response I gave for evolution, you could see how this is not what you guys really believe. Let me-

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem Talk more on this. Many of you say you don't believe in any other sources, while clearly Clearly you used deductive logic and axiomatic arguments when you refer to science. So we know it is hypocriticial on your end to say this. To say that induction is the only source you trust.

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem For those folks who may be little awry for the methodology of science, let's raise the voice for what induction is first. Induction means you test something yourself to verify that the expected behavior is what is observed. For instance, you are running an experiment yourself to-

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem Prove that the earth is round..this is an experiment you do yourself. Claiming that induction is the only source you trust, is like saying we don't trust all scientific work, unless we test it ourseleves. WHO THE.... SAYS THIS?. So yes, induction is a scientific endeavor -

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem But you are verifying something yourself. Believe me when I say this, much of the work of the scientists and science that has gone, theories that has been proved or falsified, you can never repeat those experiments your self. Yes. You can't. Because the FACTORS CANNOT NE RECREATE

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem . It can't be recreated. So you may talk a lot and raise your voice about the peer reviewing and falsifying and all those stuff, but let's just wait for a minute before you say so. The fact that we cannot retest everything others has done, is the reason why the next source become

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem -fundamental. Welcome to testimonial evidence. This is probably the largest type of evidence even science uses when it referrs to the work of others. I need to stop here to clarify something very important. @MixaanFaqih was telling me those days, that you can't be using hadeeth

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem And testimonies of other people for things that prophet Muhammad said to be true. And this is primary where @mujunaeem is deviated. Claiming that testimonial evidence of Islam is fabricated and untrustworthy.

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem So if you get back on this topic again, realize that there is an important point to be noted. Testimonial evidence is only useful when the source itself is trustworthy. Get it? I understand even then what mixan meant. You must be kidding yourself when you believe that so and so

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem Said that the prophet said to a group of people to drink camel urine to cure a disease or illness. I am not joking here. I am saying if the trustworthy of reporters is not known, we CANNOT use their testimony. Welcome to Islamic testimonial evidence. Just like useful testimonial

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem evidences in science, hadeeth and the science of hadeeth is the massive field of knowlege where testimonials evidence and trustworthiness is clearly clearly recorded as the BASE for saheeh or dhaeef or mawdoo hadeeth and so on. OK may be @ErazerSecular and @ZamZamFarish and

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem @ZamZamFarish @alinisham can help more on this part. Back to scientific testimony.
OK shit.. I got busy.. Wait guys. I will continue here. Sorry.

@iruvayani @ErazerSecular @Aramiszz @TedinMaldives @HiddenJewel_ @AashAbdulla @MixaanFaqih @mujunaeem @ZamZamFarish @alinisham @threadreaderapp unroll