at the senior center for another debate between jim hingeley and robert tracci, candidates for albemarle county commonwealth’s attorney.
i suspect this crowd will be more receptive to tracci’s platform of overcharging, aggressively prosecuting drug possession, and bootlicking for cops & ICE than the audience at the last debate.
it hasn’t started yet but i hate it already 
they’ve asked everyone to power off their cell phones because they interfere with the wireless microphones? not doing it.
hingeley says running for CA wasn’t in his plans when he retired from the public defenders office three years ago but what’s happening in the prosecutors office is alarming. we “can and should” change the policies contributing to mass incarceration.
“unfortunately, during robert tracci’s time in office we have seen how inexperience can wreck a prosecution,” hingeley says. “i’m a really good lawyer.”
of people he says deserve second chances, hingeley says “i will find ways to hold them accountable while helping them get back on their feet”
tracci says he’s running for the same reason he ran last time, “because i love albemarle county” and a “functional legal system” is necessary for people to feel safe.
tracci pandering to the geriatric crowd talking about how his office has prioritized prosecution for those who prey on the elderly
“i will continue to place the law in the context it deserves.” what does that even mean tracci?
he says his opponent has adopted a “non prosecution mantra,” which “endangers society.”
going right into audience submitted questions. “the country has grown weary from all the gun violence,” “what are your ideas for controlling gun violence?”
tracci: “we must never become inured to gun violence,” quoting the governor. “limitations on the second amendment must respect that individual right, that individual liberty.” “we have an obligation to uphold the constitution & all its provisions, including the second amendment.”
tracci says any law must respect due process and many gun control proposals do not respect an individual’s right to their property (guns)
hingeley: “the most important response a prosecutor can have to gun violence is to be an effective prosecutor.”
re: proposed legislation, his role would be more advisory, “that is not central to the office of the prosecutor.”
re: proposed legislation, his role would be more advisory, “that is not central to the office of the prosecutor.”
hingeley says he supports red flag laws, as his personal view, again saying that’s not central to the role of a prosecutor. he also supports background check legislation, calling it long overdue.
to hingeley: “the image from the illegal torch march on the friday night before the unite the right rally [...] seared in the mind of residents.” would you have handled the prosecution of those individuals differently?
hingeley: it was “torch wielding terrorists.” UVA is in albemarle county’s jurisdiction. “the conclusion that i would draw is there was sufficient evidence of committing a crime to justify a prosecution.”
“mr tracci disagrees,” hingeley says. tracci has said he is “ethically prohibited” from pursuing charges against torch marchers.
to tracci: what would you have done differently, looking back?
tracci says his opponent doesn’t have all the facts & “fundamentally disagrees” that you should “indict a case to see what happens.”
tracci says his opponent doesn’t have all the facts & “fundamentally disagrees” that you should “indict a case to see what happens.”
tracci says hingeley’s belief that the torch marchers could be indicted should concern everyone & is indicative of his lack of prosecutorial experience.
like last time, tracci seems to be implying the only possible crime on august 11 was the torches themselves. there were PHYSICAL ASSAULTS. people had lighter fluid thrown on them. people were pepper sprayed. punched. one man, my friend, nearly died.
next question is a weird one, asking whether the candidates even live in the county. tracci says he moved here in 2008 for his wife’s surgical residency. hingeley has lived here since 1971, which he says may be before tracci was born. the audience chuckles.
aha, i didn’t realize hingeley technically does live in the city, not the county. the law allows that & several previous county CAs have lived in the city while serving.
next question is about the difference between “upholding the law and promoting social justice.” (making “social justice” a negative thing says a lot about your values, doesn’t it?)
“i’d be interested in specific examples where i disregarded the law,” hingeley says. “prosecutors make decisions all the time,” he says, explaining what prosecutorial discretion is with an anecdote about someone who steals a candy bar on three separate occasions.
after a third offense, that candy bar thief could be charged with a felony. a prosecutor can use his discretion not to do that.
tracci says prosecutorial discretion is “kind of like using a company credit card,” you “get to use it sometimes,” but overusing it is “embezzling” public trust.
tracci says the progressive prosecutor movement is “just as inappropriate as a conservative prosecutor movement.”
“just because it’s charged one way doesn’t mean it doesn’t end up another way,” hingeley says. just because a case is initially charged as a malicious wounding doesn’t mean that’s the right charge or the appropriate outcome.
(re: tracci mischaracterizing his past remarks by implying that hingeley would never prosecute something as a malicious wounding)
“there are cases where cases are improperly charged by law enforcement,” tracci concedes (again only ever blaming other people)
hingeley says tracci himself just admitted he makes decisions not to prosecute or to prosecute on different charges. “i’m not saying that because i am a progressive that i’m going to disregard the law,” he says.
“i do intend to look at cases in a disciplined way,” hingeley says, “and my discipline is informed by my values.”
next question is about mass incarceration & its impacts.
hingeley: “well i think the impact is bad.” “we are still following the policies of mass incarceration that are outdated.” we are putting too many people in jail & keeping them there too long.
hingeley: “well i think the impact is bad.” “we are still following the policies of mass incarceration that are outdated.” we are putting too many people in jail & keeping them there too long.
hingeley: “we need to keep people in the community as much as possible.” his experience as a public defender gives him the experience to identify people who can be diverted to alternatives to incarceration
hingeley: “we know there are other things driving criminal behavior,” like poverty, addiction, and mental health problems.
“there is a substantial racial component to mass incarceration”
“there is a substantial racial component to mass incarceration”
hingeley also notes that diversionary programs reduce recidivism & cost less in the long run.
tracci again highlights his work with the therapeutic docket.
tracci: “it’s important to look at crime not as an arbitrary statistic,” but that behind every crime is a victim... but then immediately says “it’s important to let this conversation be driven by statistics and not sloganeering.”
next question is about alternatives to incarceration. “is there a need to change the law?”
tracci says increasing the % of people diverted to drug court & the therapeutic docket doesn’t require a change in the law.
tracci says increasing the % of people diverted to drug court & the therapeutic docket doesn’t require a change in the law.
tracci says he didn’t support those programs until after explicit approval was granted by the virginia supreme court, “i didn’t think it was appropriate to ad hoc it.”
tracci says he consulted law enforcement before supporting non-carceral alternatives for nonviolent offenders
hingeley points out that tracci just admitted again to using discretion to amend felony charges to allow nonviolent offenders to participate in diversionary programs. (he’s doing the things he criticizes hingeley for)
hingeley says we need more than just the therapeutic docket - it’s only served 12 people so far.
tracci pushes back and says “we’re trying to help people with high needs” and “with those high needs comes a higher failure rate.”
tracci pushes back and says “we’re trying to help people with high needs” and “with those high needs comes a higher failure rate.”
“this program is targeted to a specific population,” hingeley says. that population necessarily generates a very low number of participants. “we can do more.” why don’t we have a program that serves more people?
tracci recently requested another $100k in order to prosecute more cases. he balks at the question, saying no formal request has been made.
tracci says he has actually seen a reduction in spending (is that because he can’t seem to retain his staff?)
“we have actually saved money over the last couple of years” (and had a complete turnover of staff 👀)
“we have actually saved money over the last couple of years” (and had a complete turnover of staff 👀)
“i would like to see the office be able to prosecute effectively,” hingeley says, bringing up the botched prosecution of jason kessler’s perjury charge. “the community did not get justice.”
“i would add that mr tracci is incapable of learning from the mistake he made in that case,” citing tracci’s past statements placing the blame on judge higgins rather than himself for failing to establish venue for the case.
tracci gets 30 seconds to respond to that which he mostly wastes but ultimately just blames the judge again.
last question: what is your position re: notifying ICE about someone you’ve decided to prosecute?
hingeley: “i believe that ICE should be notified according to the law,” but the issue people are talking about is voluntary notification which is a jail board policy & the CA does not sit on the jail board.
hingeley says tracci’s position is that the jail should do ICE’s work for them, “as if ICE doesn’t have enough resources to get the job done.”
hingeley: “they wanna pass down one more responsibility to the locality.” “what we’re talking about is a matter of policy not a matter of law.”
tracci: “five of the six law enforcement officers that weighed in took my position” on continuing voluntary ICE notifications.
“it’s important not to try to subvert” federal immigration authority.
“it’s important not to try to subvert” federal immigration authority.
tracci: “we have seen the catastrophic public safety consequences” when this isn’t done. (have we? what are the catastrophic public safety consequences of not destroying families?)
closing remarks.
tracci: indicting cases to see what happens is a dangerous position to take.
re: prosecutorial discretion, “i am a law enforcement officer, not a legislator”
tracci: indicting cases to see what happens is a dangerous position to take.
re: prosecutorial discretion, “i am a law enforcement officer, not a legislator”
tracci says hingeley has received unprecedented large individual donations. “i will not place the office up for sale to any individual.”
tracci: “the progressive prosecutor movement is a recent development” “people reflexively and intuitively understand” it is dangerous for a prosecutor to align himself with a partisan movement.
hingeley: you just heard mr tracci say i am a partisan, ideological politician & he is not, but he is running as a republican & after 15 months in office, he asked trump to appoint him to a position in his administration.
hingeley: yes i’ve got some big donors, but so does he, including one large one from someone who famously only gives to republicans (while hingeley is still talking, tracci rather loudly complains to the moderator that this is a direct political attack he needs to respond to)
to hingeley’s allegation that he is using the people of albemarle county as a stepping stone to higher officer, tracci tells him he should “get the facts straight” before making personal allegations.
got rate limited right as the debate ended! good timing.
