Thread by @jpdanner

Its #Nethui time!

Now its "Sex Sells: who's paying?"

With @theJDuce & @NatDudley!

#Nethui

Quick interlude: #shoesofnethui

#Nethui

Everyone knows the internet runs on sex & cats.

But it can be hard to sell sex on the internet. Many payments gateways/e-commerce sites/patreon won't allow sex businesses to use their services.

#Nethui

Why do we make it so hard to provide services that almost every adult uses in some way?

We almost all watch porn, have sex, buy sex related stuff online, or read about sex online.

#Nethui

What happens when a handful of people (those who run payments gateways) get to make decisions about what kind of legal businesses can access their intent based tools?

#Nethui

Can the government actually tell international internet companies what to do?

Or is it incumbent on the government to make sure these services are avaliable for all legal businesses?

#Nethui

At what point is it ok for these payments gateways to be able to pick & choose who they work with?

#Nethui

"Isn't it an open marketplace? If we're not happy can't we create one we want?"

"Actually - creating a payment gateway is SUPER difficult."

#Nethui

Are we marginalising & discriminating against people for doing a legal form of sex work, is that ok?

How would we feel if it was dairy farmers?

#Nethui

Are there any examples of NZ companies discriminating against companies for sex work?

#Nethui

Barriers to using crypto currency are quite high. Its very difficult to convert those into cash in NZD.

Usually well outside the abilities of small businesses.

#Nethui

The harder a payment gateway is to use/set up the less likely it is that businesses will use it. Which is why minimal friction options like PayPal & Stripe are so popular.

#Nethui

Why do we treat sex transactions and businesses as different from other businesses?

Surely all that matters is whether or not its a legal business.

#Nethui

Anyone who has ever bought a sex toy on the internet knows that its a hidden industry.

They're billed under a different name and shipped in "discreet" packaging.

How do we normalize it? Why is it a different category.

#Nethui

"The kids are cool with talking about this stuff! They talk about it all the time!"

*The students present giggle nervously*

#Nethui

"Prezzie cards: not just for your teenage cousin who you don't fully understand.

Also for buying sex stuff online!" @ColeyTangerina

#Nethui

You can't have more than 7 sex toys in Texas.

Guns are fine, though.

#Nethui

Do sex companies have more charge backs than normal companies?

Are people afraid to report fraud for sex services?

Or do we just THINK there would be more fraud?

#Nethui

The whiteboard is getting full!

#Nethui #SexSells

Devils advocate:
"If sex workers can turn down people they don't like, why can't businesses turn down sex workers?"

Probably a bit more physical risk in sex work...

#Nethui #SexSells

Why is sex work immoral when guns are ok?

#Nethui #SexSells

It's incumbent upon the client to find a sex service that provides the particular service you want.

Some bakers make cakes. Some make cookies & doughnuts. The choice is on you!

#DoughnutAreTheRightChoice

#Nethui #SexSells

Around 5000 sex workers in NZ.

Should prostitutes collective uae their collective bargaining power to get better payment processing?

#Nethui #SexSells

Now talking about Next Generation Internet Jobs & The Economy with @rohmac & @amscraig

#Nethui

We want our kids to get these next generation skills, but who is going to teach them those skills?

How do we effectively teach the teachers?

#Nethui

Should we be focusing on technical skills or soft skills (empathy, etc)?

What do schools and universities need to be providing?

#Nethui

We built the 20th century economy on carbon.

We have to de-carbonize our economy. Does that mean we need to virtualize it? Is it going to be everything "as-a-Service"?

#Nethui

Does the new economy cut back on jobs?

What does that mean for job security when everything is ephemeral?

#Nethui

Aside: the real time transcription going on the livestream is damn cool!

#Nethui

We can't afford to let the markets rule.

The effects of globalisation snd automation are going to be rough on the middle class. Resulting in increasing inequality & unrest?

#Nethui

How are we going to recycle all the rare earth minerals that make our high tech toys possible?

They're not infinite resources...

#Nethui

Why has this conversation been so negative?

The next gen offers opportunities along with challenges. But we need to seize the opportunities.

#Nethui

New Zealand is in a good position for globalisation. When you can work anywhere why wouldn't you want to live & work in New Zealand?

Good opportunity to attract talent.

#Nethui

"I'm Colin, I've been doing IT things for quite a few years"

Bit of an understatement from @ThisCJ

#Nethui

Most of what we'll be doing in the future are jobs much different from our educational backgrounds.

#Nethui

Next gen networks and jobs are going to change our location dependence.

We won't need to live in big cities to effectively do our jobs & connect with others.

#Nethui

We need to get more positive sci-fi into education. Too much of it is dystopian and is having a negative impact on how we see the future.

#Nethui

We have to think about how we need to change our fundamental values in order to make these new economies work.

How do we value people? Needs larger emphasis on empathy, creativity & problem solving

#Nethui

"The Internet is a massive pool of information, most of which is rubbish"

#Nethui

Learning about @amscraig's charity that she started to help improve people's living conditions

#Nethui

Now its @MartinDanner putting in his 2 cents on promoting government policy towards regional workspaces.

#Nethui

Its tough to establish relationships virtually. But once those relationships are established its much easier to interact remotely.

#Nethui

Now @amscraig shouts out to @FigureNZ for leading the way in focusing on remote first working

#Nethui

We thought that once got UFB everyone could immediately work remotely.

But the success depends on the culture. We need the right culture & mindset to drive that.

#Nethui

Its pretty entertaining watching @CreetureNZ & @amscraig signal at each other across the room.

I vote for interpretive dance.

#Nethui

Remote first working requires different support structures than office-based businesses.

#Nethui

Its @CreetureNZ telling us that he wants a future where people can easily work from home in their pajamas.

Quit spying in me, @CreetureNZ!

#nethui17

Apparently working from the central library in Auckland is a fantastic experience!

We should be leveraging the community spaces we've got to enable rural workspaces.

Libraries, post offices, Maraes, etc

#nethui

#Nethui!

Now its @MicheleACourt MCing before the panel.

#nethui

Now its a panel on Freedom of Expression, otherness, safety, and consequences

#nethui

Now @jilliancyork is discussing the perspective API (which determines the toxicity of comments). But it's judging the speech on the specific language and not the content.

How do we determine if there is REAL harm?

#nethui

Jillian is an anti-censorship activist because she doesn't think we can do censorship right.

#nethui

Now its @JCE_PC throwing down a challenge for the audience:

How many of you have come across DMCA or geo blocking? (basically everyone)

How many have seen things blocked for privacy issues? (basically just @jilliancyork)

Why is privacy less important?

#nethui

Should Europe be able to tell Google they have to suppress certain info globally online?

What if it was North Korea asking for that power?

#nethui

TIL: Jon Duffy's favorite word is "spicy"

#nethui

One of the company values is "don't be a dick"

So we use that as a metric on whether to censor or change posts

#nethui

Now its @vanisadhiru talking about the human rights framework from a charity & NGO perspective.

We're not all free from governmental reaction in our interactions online

#nethui

We're facing two areas of concern:

Freedom of expression

But at the same time we have a right to freedom from oppression

How do we balance the two?

@vanisadhiru

#nethui

Jillian had to tightly curate her online spaces. Twitter is public (but gets a lot of toxic interaction) whereas Facebook is a tightly held safe space.

@lightyouonfire @cramrambler

#nethui

If you want to have conversations online, you have to be really prepared for what is about to come at you

@vanisadhiru

#nethui

Who you are (your sex, race, orientation, social status, etc) has a big impact on how people react to your statements & actions online

#nethui

Is there a limit to how far we should expect online platforms policing these spaces?

"They have the money & the technology to do much more, but they're not incentivised to do so" @jilliancyork

#nethui

Are we able to influence the platforms to become mlre responsible?

We shouldn't abdicate our personal responsibility to demand that these platforms create spaces that are safe & create experiences that add, not detract - @JCE_PC

#nethui

"I would just like to remind you that a question normally goes up at the end and is something you don't already know the answer to" @lightyouonfire

YUS

#nethui

"I wish that more people on Twitter would ask me how my day is and sende pictures od their dogs" @jilliancyork

#nethui

"People on the internet need to chill out when their TradeMe item turns up green & not blue" @cramrambler

#nethui

Should we all be living in bubbles in the internet?

"I'm going to block anyone that calls me the c-word on the internet" @lightyouonfire

Fair enough too!

#nethui

"I'm 9 years old and I want to know what is the most important thing to remember on this subject?"

"You have rights to say how your information is used & you're engaged. Don't let anyone push you out of it" @JCE_PC

#nethui

These online platforms depend on the users. If they don't meet out needs, we can move. @JCE_PC

Don't stay on platforms that don't meet your needs.

#nethui

First blockchain question!

DRINK!

#nethui

Blockchain isn't the panacea of tech. What happens to "the right to be forgotten" when everything is in a blockchain? @JCE_PC

#nethui

In relation to online safety, how do we engage older people who are struggling?

"We need to help the elderly more than we do. Its quite difficult to find information in an easily digestible form"
@cramrambler

#nethui

Thanks to our lovely, spicy, yeah nah panel!

Instead of "don't be a dick" perhaps "don't be an asshole"

#nethui

Good platters at #nethui!

We're headed to @VulturesLane, #nethui! All welcome!

Its #Nethui Day 2:

Now with Twitter Wall!

Enjoying @kyhwana's blockchain comment

Now its @MicheleACourt opening #Nethui Day 2!

Now its @piawaugh on how the roles of the government in ensuring trust & freedom on the internet

#Nethui

Where are we at?

#Nethui

We need to move power to a more distributed model. We're all nodes in the network that can collectively hold higher power structures accountable.

#Nethui

We need to decide where we're going?

We need systems that force empathy back into the systems.

Having a goal that you're iterating towards is different from people iterating away from pain

#Nethui

The current paradigm shift collide with existing systems to create pressure

#Nethui

We need to decide if the Internet is a public or private space.

We think the Internet is an open space but all of our interactions on it are based on contractual obligations (with your ISP, your platform provider, Facebook, etc). Contracts can be used to limit use

#Nethui

How do we know who to trust on the internet?

One of the biggest problems government faces - its gone from simple to extremely complex.

#Nethui

The complexity is increasing exponentially.

Government can't increase their ability to meet this need exponentially. So we need to figure out how to use government as an enabler to help others meet these needs.

#Nethui

Why do we still keep using lawyers as modems?

#Nethui

We live in a time of surplus compared to scarcity.

So why do we still operate with a paradigm & mindset of scarcity

#Nethui

We need to move away from the idea of "normal" and push for everyone be compliant to situations where we embrace diversity & creativity.

#Nethui

"We can do things with machines we can't do with people, so we'll have hack around our biological will to live."

Discussing how we'll have tint windows on self driving cars as they'll be driving so close together.

#Nethui

"If I want to be a professional rock climber I probably want 10 tentacles. We need to be able to add more features and move away from the normative ideas of what it means to be human"

#Nethui

Potential roles for government:

"You can't thrive if you're just trying to survive. We have too many people in our society who are just trying to survive. Its not enough for gov to ensure they survive. Need to enable them to thrive"

#Nethui

Leadership is critical.

Government needs ti ensure that where we're headed represents yhe best interests or society.

#Nethui

"Minecraft is the best thing for our kids. It gives them the assumption that they can change the world around them"

#Nethui

We're creating "service innovation"

Innovation is about doing.

#Nethui

We need to embrace change, enable trust & freedom.

2017.nethui.nz/friday-livestr…

"Open that isn't digital doesn't scale.

Digital that isn't open doesn't last."

#Nethui

We are the makers of society. We have the skills and ethos and trust to build a better world. We need to bring our fellow citizens along with us. But we need to never be complicit in continuing the legacy systems of the past.

#Nethui

Now @MicheleACourt is introducing the famous @meganjwhelan as the panel moderator!

#Nethui

"Oops, we accidentally had an all women panel"

#Nethui

Now Alex Sims makes an argument why all our information would be better in blockchain

#Nethui

Let look into participatory democracy.

Government needs to ask citizens what they need, not just in digitising the status quo.

Currently trust in government is one of the biggest barriers to participatory democracy

#Nethui

Watching Pia tweet while onstage on a panel is endlessly entertaining.

#Nethui

Marianne Elliot and @actionstation try and push open the windows of change.

@actionstation is designed 5o serve the majority of people (who don't get paid to spend time thinking about society's future)

#Nethui

is building a crowdsourced vision for the future of New Zealand in 2040

#Nethui

People often think that the things that government does won't affect them so they don't engage. How we we engage them?

"We need to teach civil disobedience. How they can participate & disrupt democracy as a mechanism. That is how the doing is done."

#Nethui

Do we actually want politicians engaging digitally?

"Yes - it shows us who they really are if nothing else."

"They need to engage somehow. Digital is just another channel"

#Nethui

There needs to be an accountability.

Companies have rights and should have responsibilities.

People have rights and should have responsibilities.

Government have rights and should have responsibilities.

Some have managed to avoid more responsibilities - Pia

#Nethui

Around the public sphere there is growing hostility towards voices of dissent.

We need a more participatory environment that listens to & empowers all views - Marianne

#Nethui

How do we co-design the future in a scalable way?

How do we co-design better processes that allow everyone to participate in government & public service? - Pia

#Nethui

What do we do about the ubiquity of big corporate presence in the education system & the lack of other products?

It is incumbent on the schools that students get a variety of choice.

We need to focus on the skill, not the product.

#Nethui

Technology is one of those things that is often outsourced. Even thinking about it has normally been our sources to their favorite geek.

We need a mechanism where people can contribute to projects where they have specific expertise.

#Nethui

How do we reorganize the way we talk about our democracy as well as the way we structure it?

#Nethui

Interest Groups can become insular. They need to keep reaching out and re-engaging with the community.

#Nethui

Now Bronwyn is showing us a sneak preview of her upcoming art exhibition about the Southern Cross Cable

#Nethui

Check out more details about the exhibition online!

@hollowaysmith

#Nethui

Now headed to the #Nethui session on rural connectivity.

And I've positioned myself so the livestream camera is pointed straight at my bald spot...

#Winning

The panel discussing Rural Connectivity:

#Nethui

Now discussing Rural Broadband Initiative: Phase 2

Has much more flexibility around how that is developed.

Vodafone, Spark, & 2Degrees sre all equals partnering with Crown Infrastructure to make this happen

#Nethui

Rural folks just want access to the basic services that urban folks are accustomed to online: banking, communication, access to online schoolwork & resources, etc

#Nethui

Prime goal to build the 4G networks that will enable reliable rural networks.

We need make this funding go as far as possible.

#Nethui

The real difference in Phase 2 is the collaboration between our mobile network operators.

This means connectivity can be deployed much mlre efficiently as they can all share the same equipment.

#Nethui

What will be some of the features of next generation networks that allows us to deploy into areas where it was previously not affordable?

Looking into the space of 5G

#Nethui

We could have large land-based cells, but also smaller UAV (drone) based cells

Uh oh! More concerning use cases for @ryankurte's flying death machines...

#Nethui

Looking at providing rural connectivity for as cheaply as 11 euros per month.

Wow, that's way less than I was anticipating.

#Nethui

Now Andrew is going to be a bit provocative.

The problem with rural connectivity is that the cost effectiveness of putting in networks are proportional to the population density.

So rural is not cost effective.

#Nethui

This infrastructure story & this connectivity story has the best solutions that its ever had.

More than 80% of NZ homes will get fibre to the door. Almost all the rest will get connected via world class wireless providers. The rest by the best satellites avaliable.

#Nethui

Are there actually better rural connectivity solutions avaliable?

Or are the ones we're implementing already the best ones avaliable?

Should we stop whinging about problems we've solved?

#Nethui

I'm sensing some strong feelings on the panel about current commentators.

#Nethui

It was decided that internet access is a fundamental human right. So what role does government play in providing that right?

#Nethui

When we're talking about how the connectivity is rolled out we're talking about homes. We spend a lot of time outside of our homes working and traveling & playing. We need connectivity in those places too. @rohmac

#Nethui

5G is focused on mobility combined with high data rates.

#Nethui

"If you're talking about more tribal areas we're not talking about 8% without connections, we're talking about 98%. And we're not being covered by RBI 2. They're underestimating the cost to people living in these places - up to $200/week"

#Nethui

"Universal access is the key to a functioning democracy. We need to be providing universal access" @StuFlemingNZ

#nethui

We still have significant proportions of the community who cannot afford connectivity regardless of how its delivered.

If we don't solve those problems alongside connectivity we'll never have universal access.

#Nethui

Access to connectivity is access to digital citizenship.

Barriers to access blocks communities from participating in our current society. @dylanp

#nethui17

More Maori voices discussing how their communities are being overlooked by UFB and RBI rollouts

#Nethui

Very generous for @NetHuiNZ to provide us with enough 🥑 on the sandwiches to purchase an Auckland house.

#Nethui

Now @davemosk @andrewcushen discusses NZ's Digital Future

#Nethui

Five areas of interest:

Digital economy
Digital divide
Digital rights
Independent public service media
Open Digital Government

Oh no, now we're breaking into small groups! 😱

#Nethui #DigitalFuture

Digital rights? What are they? What are we looking at for the next 3 to 5 years

@StuFlemingNZ

#Nethui #DigitalFuture

We need universal access - @StuFlemingNZ

#Nethui #DigitalFuture

How do we reliability enshrine rights? And make them enforceable?

#Nethui #DigitalFuture

Now exploring the results of the group discussions
@davemosk

#Nethui #DigitalFuture

Watching @davemosk try and figure out how msny people are humming (and thus signalling their agreement) is pretty entertaining.

#Nethui #DigitalFuture

New Zealand companies need to get better at telling their stories

#Nethui

You can view/participate in the doc by going to: bit.ly/nethui-dm

#Nethui

Now its Don & @amscraig starting a discussion on the social & cultural implications of the internet.

#Nethui

Is the internet turning everyone American?

#Nethui

"I met @theJDuce online and I guess we're now best friends" @amscraig on how she engages with people online.

#Nethui

Now a commentator who hates having to look at the food pics that her family posts online.

#Nethui

"I think family history is an addiction snd once you start you just can't stop"

Genealogy: the heroin of the internet

#Nethui

Does the internet bring us closer or further apart?

There is an asymmetrical factor as some share much more than others.

#nethui

"I think Facebook is a bunch of crap. But I was forced as my daughter & my wife are on it."

#Nethui

"The Internet isn't bringing any new problems, they're all just more intense!"

100% disagree. Its democratised access to information while removing editorialising intermediaries

#Nethui

The internet has a long memory.

If you're old all the stupid things you did when you're young are all forgotten.

If you're young now, all the dumb things you do will live on forever

#Nethui

"Bebo was awesome! Because you could be young & dumb on Bebo but then it went under and now it's all gone!"

"We need to be able to forget what was done before 16 to protect our kids"

#Nethui

The internet supports visual communities that couldn't exist before because they're too geographically distributed

#Nethui

A fellow who intentionally avoided social media. He's found that its harder & harder to connect if he's not on those platforms.

People are now only reaching out over social media.

#Nethui

If your language isn't English its hard to keep your sense of identity as much of the internet doesn't support your language & alphabet

#Nethui

Now @hollowaysmith is promoting phone calls.

"They're fantastic! Phone people up! It's cheap!"

#Nethui

Social media can be isolating as well.

Many people use social media grudgingly or with some suspicion.

#Nethui

"The social media platform of the youths (9 year olds) is Roblox!

Twitter and Facebook are for old people!

Why aren't we talking about Roblox?!"

#Nethui

This thing we're doing is binarizing social media. Its good, or its bad.

But the debate is more complex & nuanced than that.

#Nethui

We have to be wary of algorithms. They're made by humans so they inherited our biases.

Everything that is happening on the internet are things we're doing to ourselves.

#Nethui

Watching @NetHuiNZ @InternetNZ team pictures

#Nethui

Really missing the tables that used to be in the bsck of rooms at #Nethui. I've had to resort to a stool!

Now a panel on trust & deception. Lead by Colin Peacock.

With:
@CreetureNZ
Jamison Johnson
Vanessa Blackwood

#Nethui

Most troubling for me is the influence side of deception. You can use it to subtly shape your views.
It is looking a lot like cold war era cyops
@CreetureNZ

#Nethui

How many people scrutinize links they're sent or articles they see.

We don't need to be needlessly fretting or worrying about the wrong things. But we need to be vigilant.

#Nethui

Why do we keep placing trust in systems that are fundamentally untrustworthy?

How do we identify systems that are trustworthy or untrustworthy? - Jamison

#Nethui

Scammers will try and leverage the trustworthiness of existing companies. "I'm from Spark\Microsoft\the IRD\etc"

How do we encourage people to think twice?

#Nethui

Disagree. Vigilance doesn't alway cut it.

It just takes one mistake for you to get fall victim.

#nethui

Do people need to take responsibility for this themselves? Or is are there partners who can help them?

Jamison thinks its something everyone needs to take personal responsibility for

#Nethui

Now Vanessa is talking about how to check on the information organizations gather about you is accurate.

You have the right to ask them to correct false or incorrect information. If they won't correct it you have the right to attach a statement alongside that.

#nethui

You can't always trust providers to keep your passwords safe.

Even the big services that you'd think we can trust (Facebook, Twitter, etc).

#Nethui

Designers of services need to have a think about the information they actually need.

Does it actually require a username/password?

Does it ACTUALLY need to know my gender (as the Skybus wifi login asks)?

#Nethui

We need to shift to a more constructive discourse around security instead of just assigning blame.

Need to move from who is at fault to what do we need to do to fix it?

#Nethui

"The infosec community is littered with the graves of many many standards. Its very hard to endorse standards in this area"

"We need to have best practices - 'this is the best way we know how to do this at the moment'"

#Nethui

Setting up basic security for websites (like HTTPS) is dead easy. We should have 95% of websites in .nz on it. Right now we're at 48%.

#Nethui

"Do you have opinions on password managers?"

"They're great!" @CreetureNZ

#Nethui

Now Jamison is suggesting that you need to do lots of research into your password manager and look at your threat model.

For infosec or tech folks, perhaps. But that is WAY too much for the vast majority of users.

#Nethui

Its wrap up time!

#Nethui

And now @jordantcarter doing the wrap up!

Much thanks to everyone for an awesome and insightful #Nethui!

Now we're headed to @VulturesLane!

All #Nethui folks welcome!