Discover and read the best of Twitter Threads about #emtalk
Most recents (24)
Thread: Post-May 1, aka the death of May 1:
A friend sent this
A friend sent this
This is the result of the DOJ investigating the NACAC Statement of Principles of Good Practice, which would have allowed this if the student had not withdrawn, but would have forbidden it if the student had notified the offering school that they had deposited elsewhere.
The DOJ treated college just like any other consumer purchase: Suppose car dealers agreed the Subaru dealer could not call you while you were on the way to the Ford dealer to buy the car you had agreed to buy, and offer you a better deal?
That would be bad for consumers.
That would be bad for consumers.
Thread: When someone tells you about the big drop in high school graduates, remember 2014. Because by 2037, we'll be back to numbers like we saw in 2014.
What's really compelling is the mix: America will be more diverse, and because different ethnic groups have different college participation rates, that's the big thing going on behind the numbers.
And, of course, New England has known this for a long time.
Thread: The numbers.
I've never received so many emails about my writing in CHE as I have for the most recent one about "The Number."
But here's a little insight into that.
I've never received so many emails about my writing in CHE as I have for the most recent one about "The Number."
But here's a little insight into that.
Sunday morning, I logged in and checked our Tuition Deposits for Fall first-year students.
By Sunday evening (12 hours later) that number had gone up by 3.7%.
By this morning, it had gone up another 3.2% over that.
By Sunday evening (12 hours later) that number had gone up by 3.7%.
By this morning, it had gone up another 3.2% over that.
Expressed another way, 6.5% of all deposits we currently have came in during the last 24 hours. And we still have a day to go...the day that is traditionally the biggest, or at least one of the biggest.
Thread: Don't be shocked when I tell you this. It takes a lot of people some time to figure it out, and sometimes a little longer to sink in:
College Board is a business.
College Board is a business.
It's a not-for-profit business. But it's a business. Not-for-profit means they don't have owners or stockholders to collect excess revenue as profits.
It's not a charity. That's not what not-for-profit means.
It's not a charity. That's not what not-for-profit means.
Moreover, it's not a government agency.
No one appointed them. No one voted them in. No legislative bodies brought them into being.
Yet it has an outsized role in determining what students get taught.
It affects millions of kids each year. Did you know that?
No one appointed them. No one voted them in. No legislative bodies brought them into being.
Yet it has an outsized role in determining what students get taught.
It affects millions of kids each year. Did you know that?
Thread:
Hey, everyone: This is pretty big.
The Daily Caller (ugh) has memos from the Florida DOE suggesting they were influencing @CollegeBoard on the AP African-American Studies curriculum as early as January 2022, and at the very minimum, July 2022.
Hey, everyone: This is pretty big.
The Daily Caller (ugh) has memos from the Florida DOE suggesting they were influencing @CollegeBoard on the AP African-American Studies curriculum as early as January 2022, and at the very minimum, July 2022.
So, to everyone who somehow believed that College Board made its own, independent decisions about the framework/curriculum and wrapped it all up in December, 2022, before DeSantis went public: Read this.
scribd.com/document/62466…
scribd.com/document/62466…
I normally wouldn't trust Daily Caller, but this serves their right wing agenda well; it's believable, and, I suspect, even they wouldn't publish a fabricated memo from the Florida DOE.
In order to win the nomination in 2024, DeSantis is going to have to do two things Trump did:
In order to win the nomination in 2024, DeSantis is going to have to do two things Trump did:
Thread: There are some people who apparently find The College Board explanation of AP African-American Studies plausible: That the framework was revised in December, and thus wasn't influenced by Florida or Ron DeSantis.
That's your right, of course.
That's your right, of course.
But here, to me, is the more plausible explanation.
That sometime--probably soon after AP AAS was announced, people in Florida got wind of the framework. And whether it was genuine, good-old fashioned racism, or political opportunism, the wheels started spinning.
That sometime--probably soon after AP AAS was announced, people in Florida got wind of the framework. And whether it was genuine, good-old fashioned racism, or political opportunism, the wheels started spinning.
It's more plausible that back channel communications started between Florida and College Board very early.
Florida has been cozy with CB since No Child Left Behind and Jeb! Bush as governor. And they are the third (give or take) biggest CB customer.
Florida has been cozy with CB since No Child Left Behind and Jeb! Bush as governor. And they are the third (give or take) biggest CB customer.
Thread: College Board, which has a history of blowing it, has blown it.
You know about the Parkland email. You know they told kids to sit in a McDonald's parking lot during COVID to take AP. You know about millions in bonuses during COVID, when revenue dropped $400M.
You know about the Parkland email. You know they told kids to sit in a McDonald's parking lot during COVID to take AP. You know about millions in bonuses during COVID, when revenue dropped $400M.
You know about taking out ads disguised as journalism. You know about their Communications staff working on a book of "research" about the SAT. You know about the disastrous launch of the redesigned SAT.
And now you know about AP African-American Studies.
And now you know about AP African-American Studies.
How did they blow it? Well, caving to pressure from a governor in Florida. The optics are bad enough: That education has been politicized by someone who wants to fan the flames of racism, fear, and hatred for political gain.
Thread: I don't know about you, but I'd expect that if you went from president and CEO of a not-for-profit in 2018 to just president in 2020, you might not get a--hold on--million dollar raise?
I have written to the Trustees of the College Board before, telling them I thought it was time for them to part ways with David Coleman.
They never answered...or maybe they did? And it was just a two-word answer?
They never answered...or maybe they did? And it was just a two-word answer?
Anyway, if you know any of the Trustees of The College Board, perhaps you could write to them and ask them to explain what they were thinking, and how they justified this.
Thread: Will colleges go back to the SAT? Yes. So let's look at how important California is to their enrollment.
I looked at 2018 IPEDS data (the last pre-COVID year for which data was available at every institution) to see how important the state is to them
I looked at 2018 IPEDS data (the last pre-COVID year for which data was available at every institution) to see how important the state is to them
California is first in everything, when you count numbers, because of its size. So of course it's the largest exporter of students in the nation (but not highest on percentage exported).
In 2018, California kept 87% of its students in-state. 13% or 38,000, left.
In 2018, California kept 87% of its students in-state. 13% or 38,000, left.
Of those who stayed, 128,000 went to community colleges. 117,000 went to public, four-year institutions.
With the SAT almost irrelevant at public institutions in California, it's going to be harder to take the test.
With the SAT almost irrelevant at public institutions in California, it's going to be harder to take the test.
Thread: Having just talked about retention and graduation rates today, a few thoughts to add some perspective. Have a cup of coffee and settle in for some reading.
First, there are three ways to "increase graduation rates." The first is to do a lot of work with your current students. This is the student services angle on it; the premise is that graduation rates are largely a function of what happens in college.
The problem with that is that student affairs people tend to focus on "at risk students." The problem with THAT is that a) most students who are "at risk" don't fail out, and that most students who fail out were not "at risk."
Thread: A play, in four acts:
Some say that I am actively trying to persuade people not to use test prep. I don't think I've ever said that; I might think it's a bad idea, but I don't tell you how to spend your money.
You might think I'm dumb for paying to have my oil changed when I can do it myself.
You might think I'm dumb for paying to have my oil changed when I can do it myself.
I do tell people that the tests are a) not good predictors and b) bad predictors for women and students of color, and that it might not be a great idea to hitch your star to a multiple choice test, given how valuable that skill is in real life.
Thread: How we in EM think and work.
Yesterday we closed the class and stopped taking freshman applications for fall. That's unusual at OSU, as we've typically stayed open most or all of the summer.
So, the summer is relaxation time, right?
Yesterday we closed the class and stopped taking freshman applications for fall. That's unusual at OSU, as we've typically stayed open most or all of the summer.
So, the summer is relaxation time, right?
No, for lots of reasons. First, you made a decision. Was it the right one? Or do a lot more students have double or triple deposits than usual? What's melt going to be like? Is our post-COVID admission world going to behave differently than pre-COVID?
Are we even post-COVID?
Are we even post-COVID?
After watching deposits for four months, you now start to look at Orientation registrations, and housing contracts. And email click rates. You know some percentage of students will sign up at the last minute for the last event, but what percentage will it be this year?
Thread: I don't think Sal Khan is a bad guy. But this article is full of College Board propaganda, as you might expect from someone who is indebted to the College Board. thejournal.com/Articles/2022/…
I will leave the #HateRead to @akilbello but let me just point out one thing in a quote from the article, and a piece of reality:
The tendency of tossing out made-up crap and expecting to get away with it is where we are. It didn't start in 2015 and 2016, that that's when it solidified.
Don't let them do it.
Don't let them do it.
Thread: May 1 (or 2, this year).
This week a counselor contacted me and asked what percentage of freshman deposits came in very near the deadline, and whether there was any data on this phenomenon.
She had a parent who was worried because a child had not yet deposited.
This week a counselor contacted me and asked what percentage of freshman deposits came in very near the deadline, and whether there was any data on this phenomenon.
She had a parent who was worried because a child had not yet deposited.
So, as I often have to tell people,"no there is no data published on this little narrow but interesting question, sorry." But then I talked about my experience: Depending on the place I've worked, you might get 25% of your freshman deposits in the week leading up to May 1 (or 2)
If you are heavy in ED like some highly rejectives, you might get 60% in January, so you might get 25% of the 40% that last week. Even that 10% is a lot.
And it's also important to remember that 90% of US colleges and universities take apps past May 1 (or 2) each year.
And it's also important to remember that 90% of US colleges and universities take apps past May 1 (or 2) each year.
Thread: I tweeted about this yesterday (sort of sardonically), but of course this is picking up some steam now, as you knew it would.
First, students have always included destination in their list of things that are important. I remember a counselor in Florida in the 80's telling me that "Boston had become hot" for her students.
It's always in the top three among student motivators.
It's always in the top three among student motivators.
And while I hate to criticize journalists who talk to six people and make it a "trend" (because the people they talked to volunteered after seeing a question on a list serve asking if they'd noticed this), it's still worrisome.
Why?
Why?
Thread: Be watching for articles and opinion pieces with the new narrative that "The SAT helps poor students." They're starting to pop up like flowers in the spring.
Why? Here's my take on it:
Why? Here's my take on it:
First, spend three minutes on this video. It's about what College Board did when the UC system tried to eliminate tests the first time, in the early part of this century. It is well worth your time. It's from @thetestdoc
thetestdoc.org/press#uc-excer…
thetestdoc.org/press#uc-excer…
The College Board is a business. It's now lost the UC and Cal State systems for real, and it's holding on by its fingernails. It has to find some way to maintain market share and pay the rent on its New York City office.
They're calling in chips from their true believers.
They're calling in chips from their true believers.
Thread: I read it again this morning:
"Everything like letters of recommendation and essays and GPA can be easily manipulated by the wealthy, so we need The SAT because it's standardized and fair."
"Everything like letters of recommendation and essays and GPA can be easily manipulated by the wealthy, so we need The SAT because it's standardized and fair."
I have this strange belief that if we who have actually done admissions keep beating our heads against a brick wall, somehow this thinking will go away.
It won't because you have people with a voice--the same ones who benefit from the SAT--controlling the narrative.
It won't because you have people with a voice--the same ones who benefit from the SAT--controlling the narrative.
So first, the rebuttal: Yes, as I've said before, almost everything in the process favors the wealthy. That's the defining problem.
Thread: Do you remember when your mom said your eyes would stick that way if you crossed them?
And have you heard about the Flutie effect? Do you believe them? Follow along.
And have you heard about the Flutie effect? Do you believe them? Follow along.
First, let's look at some NCAA Cinderella teams. Check out this article here: ncaa.com/news/basketbal…
Now let's look at admissions results in the years following, and in the longer term (where possible.)
George Mason, 2006, saw a bump in 2007, but a drop in 2008. It's admit rate has increased, and its yield and draw rates have fallen since then.
George Mason, 2006, saw a bump in 2007, but a drop in 2008. It's admit rate has increased, and its yield and draw rates have fallen since then.
Thread: I hear there might be a report coming out about first-gen and/or low-income and/or students of color and performance in STEM.
I don't know what it says, but here's what I'd think about if I were doing this study.
I don't know what it says, but here's what I'd think about if I were doing this study.
First, some admissions anecdote. If you've spent any time actually doing admissions and you disagree, feel free to say so. But I think this is so widely acknowledged in the profession that I won't get much pushback. (it could still be wrong, of course)
In 9th grade, everyone wants to be a doctor (OK, this is hyperbole.) But no one wants to be a doctor more than a first-gen/low-income/student of color wants to be a doctor.
Why? It's the most visible path to financial success. It's not a bad dream to have.
Why? It's the most visible path to financial success. It's not a bad dream to have.
Thread: Three big questions on my TL today, based on a tweet by @adamingersoll of @CompassEduGroup that I RTed this moring:
1) Should you test?
2) If you test, should you send test scores?
3) Will colleges go back to tests?
1) Should you test?
2) If you test, should you send test scores?
3) Will colleges go back to tests?
#1) The tests are pretty worthless, but if you're a good tester, or you're applying to a highly rejective (H/T @akilbello ) or you can pay for expensive prep or you're seriously motivated to do free prep, go ahead. Just having a test can't hurt you.
Of course, there are heavy opportunity costs to prepping for worthless tests. You're 17, and you have better things to do (at least I hope you do) but make yourself happy. Test if you want or your ego demands it.
Thread: Complexities in admissions.
As you may know, my wife is a writing tutor. At this time of the year, she gets a lot of frantic requests from parents and students who want help with college essays.
Today, she said, "These poor kids."
As you may know, my wife is a writing tutor. At this time of the year, she gets a lot of frantic requests from parents and students who want help with college essays.
Today, she said, "These poor kids."
It's October 15th, which is the first big deadline, mostly, it seems, among some big public universities in the southeast, some of whom, I understand, don't even use all the things they require in the admissions process.
The supplementals are, well, whack. They're simply attempts to torture students, I've come to believe, since the default response is the most basic and boring and innocuous response conceivable. Of course, students have been cautioned not to go in that direction.
Thread: I note that people talking about the continuing drop in ACT scores seem to focus on a few things: Teaching and students.
Maybe that's fair. But maybe there is something else at work.
Maybe that's fair. But maybe there is something else at work.
ACT has been prepping us for this for a while. This is from July, for instance.
Because this. ACT scores have been dropping for several years. Whatever is happening is not caused solely by the pandemic.
Thread: See if you notice a problem with this article on test optional admissions.
wbez.org/stories/test-o…
wbez.org/stories/test-o…
No, it's not the legitimate questions about whether test-optional is the "solution" to equity issues in America. It's not (and no test-optional proponent I know of has ever said it is). It's a start, however.
It's this: (shout out to @AndyBorstUofI BTW)
Thread: A slow weekend turned interesting when a student at Columbia, in response to a tweet suggesting the SAT and ACT were "good, actually" posted this chart.
It's a chart I've used several times before, and I explain the way I got the data (I even told people at ACT how I got the data from the tool they provide colleges), and I explain how to read it on a long post here. jonboeckenstedt.net/2020/01/10/som…
The responses are typical, of course, and offer nothing new by way of explanation. My favorite is always that the data make sense because "wealthy people are smarter."
Of course.
Of course.
