Thread by @ThatLibertyGuy

THREAD: Amendment Votes on Bill C-71 continue in the Senate at 2pm EST

Senate Sitting #289 Live Stream:
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CPAC TV Live Stream:
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#StopC71 #StopBillC71 #KillBillC71 #BillC71Book

Senator Stan Kutcher speaking on mental health literacy, understanding mental health treatments.

"In Canada we've been working on mental health issues for the past 20 years."

Rate of mental illness essentially unchanged. Access to care has not significantly improved either.

Senator Larry Smith: Why did @JustinTrudeau appoint a Tides Canada representative to his office? Why does the government keep taking such a weak position on Tides Canada and their attacks on our energy sector?

Senator Larry Smith: It's counter-productive for foreign-funded organizations to have direct access to the Prime Minister of Canaada through appointments like this.

Senate will now vote on the amendment to Bill C-71 at 5:30pm EST. Standing by to tweet its results and any subsequent amendment proposals that may follow the vote.

In Favour of motion to NOT read Bill C-71 a third time and amend it: 35
Opposed: 54
Abstained: 0

AMENDMENT DEFEATED

Resuming debate on Bill C-71. Senator Bev Busson speaking...

Senator Bev Busson: Bill C-71 is "a definite step in the right direction" even though it is not the "magic bullet" to solve gang violence. Says Supreme Court ruled firearm ownership is a privilege, not a right.

Senator Bev Busson: I respect the people who enjoy the shooting sports. But I support the bill because it makes sense. It more strictly regulates the movement of restricted weapons.

Senator Bev Busson: Compares firearm licenses to driver's licenses.

Senator Bev Busson: The police need legislative tools... and the ability to reclassify firearms as they see fit. "I rightly believe they are the best adjudicator" of firearm classifications/

Senator Bev Busson: Extension of background checks is needed in a world that has changed. We must reboot our thinking when it comes to firearms. Cites the debunked statement "a presence of a gun increases the chances of that person being killed" garbage.

Senator Bev Busson: Claims police need a warrant to access gun store records.

Ignores current legislation stating otherwise.

Senator Bev Busson: Police are blind about how many licensed firearm owners transfer firearms to each other.

So what?

Senator Bev Busson: I urge you to support Bill C-71. It will ensure we do not follow a different, more permissive path.

Because liberty as the default is somehow evil and wrong.

Senator Stan Kutcher: Now speaking in support of C-71 because it is a "small, dare I say hesitant step forward."

Senator Stan Kutcher: I would guess every member of this chamber has been affected, in some way, by suicide., Spent his professional life dealing with mental health issues. "That professional exposure paled in comparison" to his uncle's suicide.

Senator Stan Kutcher: Our biggest challenge is not "firearm homicide" but "firearm suicide".

Senator Stan Kutcher: The more lethal the method, the more deadly the suicide attempt will be. If a person uses a gun in their suicide attempt they will likely die. Talks about suicide as an impulsive behaviour.

Senator Stan Kutcher: On average, about half of all suicide attempts are impulsive. gives stats on suicides within 5 and 60 minutes of initial suicidal thought.

Senator Stan Kutcher: About 5% of suicides by firearm occur where no gun is owned by a member of that home. It is the presence of a gun in the home, not the ownership of it, that is the problem.

Senator Stan Kutcher: As a mental health professional, he ALWAYS asked if guns were in the home of his patients.

Senator Stan Kutcher: "It is also clear that substitution does not occur."

So the dramatic rise in hanging suicides in Canada, now 4 times the suicide by firearm rate, is a just coincidence? Sure....

Senator Stan Kutcher: It is imperative that information about suicide and guns be made available to all gun owners.

Senator Stan Kutcher: Nowhere on the list of topics prospective gun owners must learn about in the PAL course addresses suicide. Wants safety courses modified to include the increased risk of suicide caused by firearm ownership.

Senator Stan Kutcher: We need to reduce the risk of suicide and this includes increased controls on guns.

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: now speaking...

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: We do not live in a country where police can arbitrarily ban firearms, but our government wants to give that power to the police to suddenly and arbitrarily impose decision on guns.

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: Gets into the Swiss Arms debacle, how Canadians owned these guns for 12 years as Non-Restricted firearms until the RCMP unilaterally reclassified then as "Prohibited" firearms.

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: this arbitrary reclassification dramatically dropped the value of these guns by, according to Sporting Clubs of Niagara's Gerry Gamble, by thousands of dollars per gun.

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: Under Bill C-71 there is no ability to challenge a decision. Gov't only trusts the RCMP to impose harsher reclassification, not decreasing them when the RCMP makes a mistake, as they have done repeatedly.
See #BillC71Book for specifics examples.

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: Under Bill C-71, it would be impossible to appeal a decision made by the Canadian Firearms Centre. This does not represent Canadian values.

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: This total lack of oversight is an issue. We must correct this before we send this Bill back to the House of Commons. Now proposing an amendment that Bill C-71 NOT be read a third time.....

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: Amendment proposes adding a "coming into force" provision.

Senator @DonPlett: Speaking to the frustration and exasperation of gun owners with the current firearm classification system.

Senator @DonPlett: Quotes PolySeSouvient - "The arbitrary nature of the firearm classification system creates frustration for both gun owners and gun control advocates alike."

Senator @DonPlett: It is poor public policy to give the RCMP the responsibility for firearm classifications without the required accountability. We must never separate responsibility from accountability yet that is precisely what the government is proposing under Bill C-71.

Senator @DonPlett: Arbitrary firearm reclassification affect both gun owners and firearm businesses. Discusses the Ruger 10/22 magazine reclassification issue, where industry only learned about the reclassification AFTER the CBSA seized a shipment at the border.

Senator @DonPlett: CSAAA spoke to the need of structured system to address the supply chain issues when the RCMP is reclassifying guns and gun parts.

Senator @DonPlett: cites a decision on flintlocks that guns which had been imported for decades were now "not deactivated enough" with no notice to the importer or the Canadian firearm industry association.

Senator Andre Pratte: ranting on about the need for the RCMP to classify firearms. The decision of firearm classifications was ALWAYS in the hands of the RCMP until Bill C-42.

That's certainly one interpretation of the law prior to Bill C-42....

Senator Andre Pratte: I trust the RCMP. They know what they are talking about when it comes to firearm classification.

And where is that bridge you have for sale?

Senator Andre Pratte: Delayed confiscation, aka "grandfathering" is perfectly acceptable to gun owners because they get to keep their (now worthless) firearms until they die.

Senator Andre Pratte: Falls back to the RCMP's announcement that the Firearms Reference Table (FRT) will be made available on the internet.

He says this resolves the transparency issue. But does not resolve the lack of an appeal process for RCMP decisions.

Senator Andre Pratte: I choose to trust the RCMP firearm experts on firearm classifications. I choose to trust the people who know firearms best, over giving that power to elected officials who are not experts on firearms.

Rants on about the power of the "evil gun lobby"

Senator Yonah Martin: When the RCMP arbitrarily reclassifies guns or gun parts, firearm businesses are stuck with inventory they cannot sell and cannot send back to the manufacturer. This legislation does nothing to address this.

Senator Andre Pratte: Claims guns were deceptively imported into Canada, so too bad for firearm businesses. The RCMP approved the importation of these guns and gun parts, and tough sh%% to anyone who owns them. Plus, they can trade them among other "grandfathered" owners.

Senator Jean-Guy Dagenais: Individuals can appeal a decision by the government to place them on a "No'Fly" list, yet gun owners cannot appeal a decision by the RCMP to reclassify a firearm.

Senator Andre Pratte: I'm far more concerned about the Minister's ability to ignore the law, not the RCMP's classification decisions.

Speaker: Vote will be deferred until the next day the Senate meets. Vote will take place at 5:30 EST Thursday.

More amendment proposals will likely follow that vote.

ThatLibertyGuy out.

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