📣 Starting this afternoon @ 3:30 pm PST, our last #CovidTownHall of the quarter with Dr. @elizabeth_joh, professor @UCDavisLaw, who will be discussing with @ucdavis students how policing, tech & surveillance issues intersect with efforts to track & intervene in the #pandemic. 
Dr. Joh is a Martin Luther King Jr. Professor @UCDavisLaw, teaching in criminal law and procedure, constitutional law, and policing. Her research focuses on regulation of the police with emphases on undercover operations, DNA evidence collection & new surveillance technologies.
Dr. Joh has been a visiting professor at @StanfordLaw and has published widely in law journals including Stanford Law Review @StanLRev, California Law Review @CalifLRev, Northwestern University Law Review @NwULRev, Washington Law Review @WashLawReview...
(cont'd)…and the Boston University Law Review @BULawReview. She received her J.D./Ph.D. (Law and Society) from New York University @nyuniversity, and her B.A. from @Yale. After law school, Dr. Joh clerked for the Honorable Stephen Reinhardt of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.
On her podcast (@TrumpConLaw) about constitutional law, Dr. Joh recently addressed the powers that governments have during a national emergency. Are states violating our civil liberties to enforce these lockdowns? Check out that podcast episode here 👇 trumpconlaw.com/40-jacobson-an…
Dr. Joh also wrote about the ability of state and local governments to regulate our lives in a recent piece in Politico, linked below. politico.com/news/magazine/…
You can find some of her Twitter commentary about one of the first community transmission cases of #COVIDー19 here--how @UCDavisMedCntr suspected the case, but @CDCgov initially denied testing because the patient did not meet its criteria at the time.
In June 2019, Dr. Joh published this opinion piece in the @nytimes about police access to genealogical records: "Want to See My Genes? Get a Warrant: Should the
police be able to investigate your genetic family tree for any crime, no matter how minor?" nytimes.com/2019/06/11/opi…
police be able to investigate your genetic family tree for any crime, no matter how minor?" nytimes.com/2019/06/11/opi…
And in January of this year, Dr. Joh published in Communications of the ACM @CACMmag about the use of artificial intelligence in policing, which she said "raises questions about how to strike the right balance between public safety and civil liberties." papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…
What can students expect from universities in terms of their health & safety and what can universities ask or require students to do in return? Should @ucdavis require all returning students to be tested? These are among the potential questions raised by our discussion today.
This #CovidTownHall will also focus on constitutional issues raised by the pandemic & the limits of U.S. gov't power. In the context of #GeorgeFloyd's death at the hands of #Minneapolis police & resulting protests, it is ever important to understand the legal limits on policing.
To learn more about Dr. Elizabeth Joh @elizabeth_joh and her work, you can visit her @UCDavisLaw profile at this link. law.ucdavis.edu/faculty/joh/
We welcome your participation in this discussion. Questions & comments encouraged! To watch live, visit facebook.com/ucdavisbiology/.
There will be no Facebook live stream today at the request of our guest, but a video of the meeting will be available within 24 hours and closed captioning in English and Spanish in 5-7 days. Questions tweeted to @CovidTownHall will be directed to our moderator.
Dr. @BeccaCalisi begins our #CovidTownHall with a call for acknowledgement of #GeorgeFloyd's death and describes actions that those of us with privilege can take to make a difference in our communities. More resources and links to come!
Dr. Elizabeth Joh: We live in a federalist government with two parts: federal and state. Fed gov't limited to regulations under US constitution, but US states have something different called "police powers." Sounds misleading, not referring to police officers. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: States like Calif. with police powers are not beholden to the Constitution. During a pandemic it's mostly the responsibility of states to respond with emergency powers. This allows governors to impose restrictions on movement or shelter-in-place orders. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: The federal gov't cannot put these types of orders in place. Because we have an interlocking system of federal and state governments, the President can't snap his fingers and tell the entire country what to do. This also means variance between how states are responding.
Dr. Joh: We also highly value our individual liberties and rights in this country. Lots of people are asking if the government can tell them to shelter-in-place. What about abortions? Protests? These are the kinds of questions being asked right now.
Dr. Joh: We saw early on in states like Texas that they deemed abortions previously legal unconstitutional. People brought challenges to shelter-in-place orders in court there as well. Different kinds of analysis because different areas of constitutional law. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: We haven't seen some of these kinds of cases before. If we weren't living through it, it would be fascinating. But because we are living through this right now, it can be alarming. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: Anytime there's a complex issue surrounding science and technology in court, people cross their fingers and hope they get the scientific or statistical analysis right. Judges aren't trained to be scientists or immunologists, a law degree is more general. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: Sometimes the judges get the science or statistics wrong. Also not uncommon for judges to run for state political office or to have certain political affiliations in their community. #CovidTownHall
Re: relationship between states and federal government...
Dr. Joh: The federal government cannot compel the states to do certain things. That's unconstitutional because of the 10th Amendment. Big difference between what the federal government can lawfully do and the president.
Dr. Joh: The federal government cannot compel the states to do certain things. That's unconstitutional because of the 10th Amendment. Big difference between what the federal government can lawfully do and the president.
Fed. agencies like the @CDCgov can serve as a national voice that makes recommendations prioritizing scientific info to states, but it's not a legal order that states have to follow.
The pres. has what we call a "bully pulpit," re: his platform to make specific calls for action.
The pres. has what we call a "bully pulpit," re: his platform to make specific calls for action.
Dr. Joh: The federal government still has enormous power, though. In some aspects of our lives, federal authority is exclusive. Immigration is one area where federal government has the authority to set laws. There are other unique areas where ONLY the federal government can act.
Dr. Joh: We've seen restraint by governors with regards to enforcing shelter-in-place regulations. This is not because they do not have the power to enforce them. They do have this power. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: It's an amazing story that millions of people in this country now think it's okay to wear masks daily when outside. Speaks to the power of agencies and government to shape behavior. Social life is a little bit of coercion and a lot of encouragement. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: Police are ultra-local, controlled by local governments. There have been some instances where a state government says one thing about enforcement, and a local police chief says that they won't enforce regulations in the same way. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: It's not always about what can be done within gov't power, but political implications of those decisions. #CovidTownHall
Re: contact tracing, implications on gov't power & privacy...
Dr. Joh: Unfortunately the history of surveillance tech is not very reassuring. A number of examples throughout history where data has been collected for a specific purpose and then used for some other purpose later.
Dr. Joh: Unfortunately the history of surveillance tech is not very reassuring. A number of examples throughout history where data has been collected for a specific purpose and then used for some other purpose later.
Dr. Joh: In America, we are generally antagonistic towards the central government, so getting over this hurdle of convincing Americans to have digital tracing technology on their devices is very difficult. It's not a technical hurdle, it's a cultural hurdle. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: There have been calls for national-level protection over citizens' ability to control their own personal information. Private entities collect lots of info, and they sometimes make a profit off of selling this data to the federal gov't.
Dr. Joh: The Supreme Court has been becoming more aware about dangers of government having ready access to people's personal information. There's a case right now in the Supreme Court. But the court tends to be years behind when it comes to reacting to people's concerns.
Dr. Joh: The fourth amendment restricting government powers to "search and seizure" includes taking genetic info or blood samples from citizens. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: There's a category of court cases called "special needs" that allows gov'ts to do mass-testing for drugs, etc. if it's not related to law enforcement. This is a ready-made, 4th amendment framework for the gov't to intervene and make sure everyone is tested for #COVID19.
Dr. Joh: Under this legal framework, the federal government could theoretically require its citizens to be tested for #COVID19.
#CovidTownHall
#CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh, responding to hypothetical scenario where California acts to restrict access from other states: It would be very difficult, and there are a number of issues re: enforcement. Something like this would likely be challenged in court. #CovidTownHall
Q: Examples where states have failed in their ability to uphold laws/restrictions?
Dr. Joh: Court challenges and protest are the ways that state restrictions are typically challenged. Case involving church in Louisville, KY that defied state order to have a drive-in service.
Dr. Joh: Court challenges and protest are the ways that state restrictions are typically challenged. Case involving church in Louisville, KY that defied state order to have a drive-in service.
Dr. Joh: Church brought a lawsuit and judge in the case ruled that singling out religion in restrictions against "drive-in" gatherings was unconstitutional. In this specific case, mayor said that the church couldn't hold drive-in services...
Dr. Joh: (cont'd) …but other curbside pickup services offered elsewhere in same town. If the gov't treats you differently because you're a religious org, that can be challenged in court. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: But if the government tells *everyone* to do something like restricting drive-in gatherings and a church challenges this, unlikely to be successful for the church if everyone else is being held to the same restrictions. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: When it comes to Costco or Target telling you that you cannot enter without a mask, that's their private decision and it doesn't fall under your civil liberties, constitutional rights, or free speech. It's the same thing with "no shirt, no shoes, no service."
Qs regarding ongoing feud between @Twitter and Pres. Trump about fact-checking...
Dr. Joh: Twitter cannot be sued as a platform for the speech of their users. Twitter put a fact-check on a tweet from Pres. Trump that said mail-in ballots are fraudulent.
Dr. Joh: Twitter cannot be sued as a platform for the speech of their users. Twitter put a fact-check on a tweet from Pres. Trump that said mail-in ballots are fraudulent.
Dr. Joh: It's sort of a strange complaint because @Twitter's immunity to being sued by users is what allows a Twitter *user* like Trump to continue making these claims without Twitter having to take responsibility for them.
Dr. Joh: @Twitter slapped a label on Trump's tweets, and that's within their rights to free speech as a private corporation. Supreme Court gives corporations these rights. Trump threatening to sue is ironic b/c then Twitter can just boot people like him off the platform entirely.
Dr. Joh: No starker contrast can be drawn than the one between #Minneapolis police presence in response to protests over #GeorgeFloyd's death this week and the police response to protests against shelter-in-place like in Sacramento. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: A situation where the government is compelling people to get #COVID19 vaccines would definitely be challenged.
Q: Does gov't have reason to direct vaccines to certain groups of people, like health care workers, first?
Dr. Joh: Yes, they can.
Q: Does gov't have reason to direct vaccines to certain groups of people, like health care workers, first?
Dr. Joh: Yes, they can.
Dr. Joh: Certainly the government can have mass vaccination for certain areas without serious legal challenges. But compulsory vaccination very likely to be challenged. There's nothing more powerful than you believing you have to do something than being dragged into it by gov't.
Circling back to a discussion about what universities can or cannot legally do (discussed earlier in the town hall):
Dr. Joh: Universities can require their students to be vaccinated or tested before returning to campus for in-person classes in the fall. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: Universities can require their students to be vaccinated or tested before returning to campus for in-person classes in the fall. #CovidTownHall
Dr. Joh: Some distinction between public and private universities, though. Private institutions have little preventing them from taking actions to require testing of students, public universities are more beholden to state governments because of gov't funding. #CovidTownHall
Q: On the flip side, what about universities being held accountable or liable if their actions do not adequately protect students from #COVID19?
A: Universities could be held liable, but a tough case to make in court because so much is still unknown. #CovidTownHall
A: Universities could be held liable, but a tough case to make in court because so much is still unknown. #CovidTownHall
That concludes today's town hall with Dr. Elizabeth Joh (@elizabeth_joh). A recording of the session will be made available within a few days, and English and Spanish closed captioning of this town hall (work by Dr. Alexandra Colón-Rodríguez @alexcr_1) will follow in 5-7 days.
If you'd like to watch recordings of our previous town halls with English and/or Spanish captioning, you can find them on Dr. @BeccaCalisi's B3 -- Birds, Brains, and Banter -- Lab website under the "science communication" tab. calisilab.ucdavis.edu #CovidTownHall
