#DisclosuresTribunal Supt Taylor about to start but, first, legal rep for Irish Examiner's Juno McEnroe asks to clarify a matter. He says, to be clear, McEnroe is NOT one of the journalists that denies being negatively briefed. He doesn't deny that. He's claiming privilege.
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge Charleton says matters are now more confusing than yesterday. His legal rep repeats McEnroe not denying he was negatively briefed. Charleton says people have to start engaging with facts.
#DisclosuresTribunal Patrick Marrinan SC, for the tribunal, says when tribunal first wrote to McEnroe, they received a reply saying Mr McEnroe did not believe he had any info relevant to the terms of ref of the tribunal
#DisclosuresTribunal Charleton says the matters he's examining are "deadly serious" and he expects people to be "absolutely straight" with him.
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness SC, for trib, now asking Taylor about his phone call with Paul Williams around time of Ms D interview. McG trying to pin down exactly date of call. Suggests it might have been March 5, '14 - date PW has given for his first visit to Ms D house.
#DisclosuresTribunal sees phone billing records which show Taylor had a phone call IMOS Debbie McCann at 3.30 on March 5 and later there were texts later than evening with Martin Callinan and Noirin O'Sullivan
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor says he believes PW called him on a Saturday. On March 8, 2014 (a Saturday) PW interviewed Ms D (following up his call to house on March 5)
#DisclosuresTribunal Phone records show on March 8, 2014, Taylor had text with Martin Callinan around 8.50pm, a text with NOS around 8.50pm, another text with NOS at 8.50pm and then there was a call to Debbie McCann at 8.51pm.
#DisclosuresTribunal Asked if he was telling McCann that PW had "scooped the pool", Taylor said McCann normally rang on Saturdays as IMOS is a Sunday paper.
#DisclosuresTribunal hears McGuinness put to Taylor that him saying he heard Callinan say to FF TD John McGuinness that Sgt McCabe was a 'kiddie fiddler' at day of PAC meeting in Jan 2014 - this detail wasn't in his protected disclosure
#DIsclosuresTribunal McG points out he didn't hear comment Callinan allegedly made to Boucher Hayes in Dec 2013 in RTE, Callinan didn't tell him about what happened in the car park meeting and the 'kiddie fiddler' comment is only one he heard. McG says this was inserted later
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor says he didn't send any texts to neg brief Sgt McCabe to journalists or politicians. Taylor also says Callinan never compiled texts for him to send out - this is what Sgt McCabe has told him he (Taylor) said.
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness points out that Supt Taylor is also in conflict with John McGuinness over this. McGuinness TD has already told the tribunal Taylor also told him he used texts to neg brief ppl against McCabe.
#DIsclosuresTribunal McGuinness disagrees. In statement to tribunal, Taylor said he never stated to McGuinness he circulated such texts.
#DisclosuresTribunal hears Mick Clifford, of Irish Examiner and author of book about McCabe, sent a chapter to Taylor before publication.
#DisclosuresTribunal Chapter in book states: "There were a number of strands to the campaign, he told the incredulous McCabe. The most basic was the conveyance of hundreds if not thousands of text messages to media and Garda personnel casting McCabe in a dark light."
#DisclosuresTribunal sees Clifford sent chapter to Taylor with the message: "This is the chapter I was telling you about where you entered the McCabe story. See what you think, particularly in terms of factual accuracy." Tribunal hears Supt Taylor did NOT correct line about txts
#DisclosuresTribunal Also in Clifford's chapter: "They [McC and T] met at Taylor’s home the day after that. McCabe asked him again about some of the details relating to the text messages. Then he informed Taylor that he was obliged to make a protected disclosure on the matter".
#DisclosuresTribunal Sgt McCabe also said this in his evidence to the tribunal. McGuinness SC asks Taylor if he didn't see this about the texts or it didn't cause concern? (He didn't correct this either).
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor repeats he never said texts were sent out to jour/pol/snr gardai about McCabe re: neg campaign. It was verbal and opportune.
#DisclosuresTribunal [NOTE: Excerpts of relevant lines from Mick Clifford's book here: broadsheet.ie/2018/03/07/i-d…]
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness SC, now asking about him meeting with TDs Clare Daly and Mick Wallace.
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness SC moves on/back to Taylor making his PD in middle of investigation against him. McG put it to Taylor he knew what CS Clerkin was investigating: 'Is that why you made it - becayse all these things were in balance?" T: Absolutely not
#DisclosuresTribunal McG SC, now goes to his statement in which he says he knew Irish Sun's Eavan Murray and IMOS's Debbie McCann were going up to Ms D in early 2014. Said: 'I was aware they were going up there...I don't know if I knew Ms D's name...'
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] 'I do remmeber McCann and Murray contacted me serparately.. I did not discourage them..I would have encouraged them.... I never saw the investigation [Ms D] file..I didn't know it was Mr D's daughter...I recall they had fair amount of info themselves"
#DIsclosuresTribunal McGuinness points out neither McCann nor Murray were on original list of names Taylor disclosed as having been neg briefed about Sgt McCabe by him. McGuinness says Taylor didn't disclose this until after D family gave evidence last summer to the tribunal.
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness recalls IMOS Alison O'Reilly's statement in which she said: "She [McCann]claimed Maurice McCabe had abused when she was a young child, possibly five or six or seven years old. McCabe was a friend of the woman's father and they fell out.."
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] "at some stage. They were having a party or a gathering in the woman's house and the woman was behind a couch and Maurice McCabe went behind the couch and pushed against her using his groin." McG says there's lot of detail about alleged offence in it
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor says: "I knew no detail of the allegation." Taylor tells tribunal "[McCann] told me afterwards that she had gone ot the house but had not obtained any interview."
#DisclosuresTribunal In statement, T: "They [EM and DMcC] would have been aware of our attitude to McCabe. They'd have known this from my prev briefings. They would therefore have been telling me what they were going to do. I wouldn't have discouraged it as it suited the agenda."
#DisclosuresTribunal In stmt to trib, T said: "they both told me they called to the house. I assumed after that they were going to write an article. I do not think they told me about what happened at the house." [see prev tweet, he just said McC told him she didn't get i/view]
#DiscIosuresTribunal sees statement of IMOS's Debbie McCann in which she said, in Feb 2014, there were murmuings about Sgt McCabe. Taylor claims he would have briefed her prior to that.
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor said he would have told McCann an allegation had been made, the DPP cleared McCabe and that the alleged victim was the daughter of another guard. McG: Is that it? Taylor: That's it.
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness asks Taylor if he made it clear to McCann it was a sex abuse allegation or that it involved a child. Taylor: I didn't know the intimate details of whole allegation..but it was known it was a child of another member.
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness puts it to Taylor if he was running this smear campaign, surely he would need to know the details at least. Taylor repeats he got his instructions from the Commissioner Martin Callinan.
#DisclosuresTribunal ... to draw the media's attention about the motivation of Sgt McCabe and that he was "driven by revenge". Taylor: I never got into the minute details of the [Ms D] allegation."
#DisclosuresTribunal In statement, McCann said she'd approached no of diff sources about murmurings concerning Sgt McCabe and she established that the allegation was made in 2006 (Taylor says he provided that) and that it related to a child (T says he didn't give her that info)
#DisclosuresTribunal McCann said she established it was an allegation of inappropriate touching (T said he didn't tell her that). McCann said decision was made in mid-to late Feb 2014 to visit Ms D. She suggested she may have gone on Feb 14 or 21, 2014
#DisclosuresTribunal Phone billing records show Taylor was in contact with McCann around those dates.
#DisclosuresTribunal hears that in statement to the tribunal IMOS Alison O'Reilly claims McCann told her the alleged abuse concerning McCabe was covered up because McCabe was a guard and the case was never given a PULSE number.
#DisclosuresTribunal In her statement, McCann said she wasn't involved in any orchestrated campaign to malign McCabe and she has no evidence of any orchestrated campaign. She said allegations were discussed in the privacy of the IMOS office and she certainly did not brief AOR..
#DisclosuresTribunal In her statement, McCann said journalists become aware of allegations all the time and they are discussed in a private capacity, and are never aired and shared with anyone else.
#DisclosuresTribunal McCann also said AOR was a colleague and friend of hers at that point and any discussion around stories aware in that context. McGuinness points out McCann doesn't appear to dispute accuracy of what AOR said.
#DisclosuresTribunal Also hears McCann, who is invoking journalistic privilege, has told the tribunal she had multiple sources re: McCabe, and that she doesn't believe the waivers from NOS, MC and DT release her from her obligations in respect of journalistic privilege.
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor has told the tribunal he has been in contact with Eavan Murray, of Irish Sun, since tribunal began but he said the tribunal matters weren't discussed and discussion was in relation to personal matters.
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness has pointed out that Taylor had "extraordinary" amount of comment with EM after he'd left the GPO..and he asks, again, why he omitted McCann and EM from his initial list of journalists he claims to have neg briefed?
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor said he did, at the next available opportunity. Tribunal has already heard this disclosure came AFTER D family gave evidence last summer about EM and DMcC going to D house.
#DisclosuresTribunal Charleton steps in and say between Sept and Dec, 2014 he had 2,800 communcations with EM. Judge says that's 25 a day and is "very hard to forget"
#DisclosuresTribunal McGuinness goes back to Philip Boucher Hayes, of RTE, claim Taylor buttonholed him in RTE in Dec 2013 and asked "now do you understand what the position is with Maurice McCabe and the penalty points is?" - after Call made derogatory comment about McC to PBH
#DisclosuresTribunal [ctd] (Callinan denies making these comments). This line was put to Taylor by investigators and he said he didn't remember mentioning McCabe's name to PBH. But McG said that yesterday Taylor gave evidence that he could recall saying that to PBH.
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor says he can remember talking about the penalty points issue. Taylor adds penalty points and McCabe were "Intricately interwoven"
#DisclosuresTribunal is now going through several articles in which "Garda source/s" are referred to. Articles by Juno McEnroe, Conor Lally, Cormac O'Keeffe have been shown.
#DisclosuresTribunal An article by Stephen O'Brien and John Mooney, in Sunday Times, (March 2014) also shown. Line in article: 'Senior garda sources are indicating the commissioner will not apologise to Maurice McCabe or John Wilson, however. "There is nothing to apolgose for"..'
#DisclosuresTribunal[ctd]... ' said Garda source. "The whistleblowers did not pursue their complaints about the deletion of penalty points thought the appropriate channels in every case, but chose to releae information to politicians and others." Taylor says he was source 4 that
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell SC, for Sgt McCabe now questioning Supt Taylor. McD asks him if he believed McCabe was motivated by revenge. Taylor agrees.
#DisclosuresTribunal McD: Did you believe you were doing wrong at the time? Taylor: No, McD: Did you believe you were imparting factual info? Taylor: Yes. McD asks if he still believes he was motivated by revenge? Taylor: No.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell: Do I understand your evidence to be that you decided that you would slip this into conversation but never commit it to writing? Taylor agrees.
#DisclosuresTribunal McD asks him how he differentiated between on and off record briefings. Taylor says your name or title or office would be attributed on record. Off record is 'sources said', etc.
#DisclosuresTribunal McD suggest there's a third category of briefing - when something is told but not published. When something is not for publication but for information. Taylor agrees.
#DisclosuresTribunal Asked what he expected to flow from these 'not for publication but for information' briefings, Taylor said that there'd be a critical eye taken to Sgt McCabe's allegations about penalty points, etc.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell raises the evidence last week of Sgt James Molloy in which she said Taylor would have been "uncomplimentary about Maurice McCabe" and uncomplimentary about any journalist/Oireachtas member favourable to McCabe. Taylor agrees with Sgt Molloy's claim.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell refers to his evidence yesterday that two journalists who wouldn't have been briefed neg were Michael Clifford, of Irish Examiner, and Katie Hannon, of RTE. McD asks what steps he would have taken to show his displeasure to them.
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor says the Garda Press Office had no engagement with Michael Clifford and, in regards to Katie Hannon, the confirmation/engagement would "kept at a very professional level" Tribunal has broke for lunch.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell asks Taylor about his understanding of confidential briefings. Taylor: Once I provided them with the info, on confidential basis, I relied on journalistic code. McD suggests: You relied upon that neither you nor they would say this happened?
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell now going through Sgt McCabe's protected disclosure
#DisclosuresTribunal Line in PD says Taylor told McCabe: 'Dept McGuinness was warned against believing any evidence that I would give at the PAC on the basis that I was a serial sex abuser who abused my own children and nieces.'
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor tells McDowell that he never knew what was discussed between Martin Callinan and Dept McGuinness in carpark meeting
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor also denies telling McCabe that Noirin O'Sullivan was the "pusher" in the alleged campaign to discredit Sgt McCabe. Taylor tells McDowell: "It's a word I'd never use"
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor also denies telling McCabe that Callinan provided the texts for Supt Taylor send on. McDowell says it's McCabe's case he did and he was there, Taylor says he (T) was there too as was his wife
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell earlier asked Taylor if he didn't send negative briefing texts to journalists because he didn't trust the media. Taylor said it was just the method he sued.
#DisclosuresTribunal McCabe's PD has the line: "He [Taylor] told me there were a number of intelligence files on me in Garda HQ and I should look for them under disclosure."
#DisclosuresTribunal Charleton steps in to say lot of money and time has been spent on this allegation and he (judge) even went to Garda HQ to see if there are any files.
#DisclosuresTribunal Asked where he got this from, Supt Taylor said it's possible that this was his understanding. He accepts previous evidence heard last week that there are no such files. Charleton: Were you trying to wind him up? Taylor: Absolutely not.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell reads out line from McCabe's PD in which he said T said there was "no doubt that my phone had tapped but he was not aware of the present position". Taylor denies this. He said: "I was there, Mr McDowell, I know what I said, and I didn't say that"
#DisclosuresTribunal Hears Taylor say he rang Supt Noel Cunningham after he heard Noel Cunningham had heard that the file in relation to him (Taylor) - after the CS Clerkin investigation - had been returned with no prosecution.
#DisclosuresTribunal Asked how he heard that Noel Cunningham had heard this, Taylor said: "I heard it from another colleague". Taylor suggests NC might have heard as he is President of the Association of Garda Superintendents.
#DisclosuresTribunal Another line in McCabe's PD says: "He [Taylor] told me that he was informed by Dep Comm John Twomey that if he "slipped out" and reitred, all this, i.e., his dicsipline charges would 'go away' and that Dep Comm Twomey could facilitate it..."
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] "...Supt Taylor adamantly refused to adopt such a course." Taylor denies saying this to McCabe.
#DisclosuresTribunal has heard that Sgt McCabe, in his PD, said Taylor said Noirin O'Sullivan would do anything to lie.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell refers to statement to tribunal from Independents 4 Change TD Mick Wallace in which he said Taylor told him "When she moves, she's lying" Wallace said: "He told us that when she is sitting and she moves her seated position, she is telling a lie."
#DisclosuresTribunal It's put to Taylor that he was in the habit of impugning NOS, Taylor says he doesn't accept that.
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor is now being asked about Paul Williams's articles. Says PW never turned up at crime scenes, press conferences or official events. Says "He had his own distinctive practice."
#DisclosuresTribunal hears (again) that Taylor claims PW rang Taylor when he was at Ms D house and said "guess where I am?" McDowell asks Taylor to elaborate and T claims PW said he was at Ms D house, McCabe destroyed D family and he was going to write neg articles about McCabe
#DisclosuresTribunal (PW denies this). Taylor says PW didn't tell him about the video interview he did with Ms D. Taylor confirms the call was welcome news to him and he passed it on Martin Callinan and Noirin O'Sullivan
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor said NOS called him back after informing her of PW's call. T: 'She rang me back and said I got a call from PW, he was up at that house..conversation was on a simlar line to text about what PW had passed on to me, where he'd been/what he was going 2 do'
#DisclosuresTribunal Asked if she seemed worried, Taylor says no. Says it was a very matter of fact conversation and there weren't any emotions shown. McDowell suggests this was going to be a "blockbuster" and cause terrible damage to McCabe.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell puts it to Taylor that he omitted the names of Debbie McCann and Eavan Murray from his first list of nine journalists on purpose in order to protect them. Taylor: "Absolutely not" and adds he did them at first available opportunity.
#Disclosurestribunal Charleton (again) points out that the two names weren't disclosed until investigators asked him about them following D family evidence last summer
#DisclosuresTribunal Sean Gillane, for RTE, now questioning Supt Taylor. Gillane: In early 2014, two journalists of largest circulating tabloids in Ireland were "biting". Gillane suggests 'the agenda was getting traction'.
#DisclosuresTribunal Gillane puts it to T an article in either paper couldn't have been more damaging for McCabe. Suggests T would have been ecstatic. G: From all of the paper I've gone through, this appears to be about the only aspect of this neg briefing that you have detail.
#DIsclosuresTribunal After several attempts by Gillane to put across his point, Judge steps in and says Taylor can't give any other specifics about the initial 9 journalists but when this is not the case when it comes to EM and DMcC
#DisclosuresTribunal Gillane says this makes it all the more curious that these 2 journalists are "not just off the original list" but 'they're off the list in a context where you have actually memory and detail about the Ms D story. How could that be so?'
#DisclosuresTribunal Gillane puts it to Taylor that he has never met RTE's John Burke. Taylor: "I have to accept that." Gillane points out two journalists whom he has met didn't make the original list but Burke, whom he's never met, did make the list.
#DisclosuresTribunal Oisin Quinn, of Irish Examiner, now questioning Taylor. Quinn raises the email/chapter of his McCabe book which Mick Clifford sent to Taylor for him to look over. (Subject line in email: "de buke")
#DisclosuresTribunal This email was sent on May 25, 2017. Quinn points out that tribunal was up and running at time email/chapter was sent and he [Taylor] had legal representation for the tribunal at that point.
#DIsclosuresTribunal (See earlier tweets concerning changes Taylor DIDN'T make concerning Clifford's book) Quinn points out that only change Taylor sought was a line clarifying that he hadn't been interviewed by then Childrens' Ombud Emily Logan during her inquiry into Roma kids
#DIsclosuresTribunal Quinn says he is not going to cross-examine Taylor on claims he neg briefed McEnroe, McConnell and O'Keeffe. Charleton says what Q is saying is he's not going to ask any questions to effect T did neg brief or he didn't. Judge suggests he's sitting on fence
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge says he doesn't get the basis for the position. Says: "I need to know why" Judge: This is a public tribunal and people have to explain themselves to the tribunal. Judge says it's like if you talk to journalist, it's like talking to sacerdotal individual
#DisclosuresTribunal Quinn says McEnroe, O'Keeffe, McConnell are maintaining their journalistic privilege and that this privilege applies notwithstanding the fact that the alleged souce has waived privilege. Judge replies: "We don't know if they have it [privilege] as yet."
#DisclosuresTribunal Darren Lehane, for FF TD John McGuinness, now asking Taylor qs. Raising their meeting in 2016 in Skylon Hotel. Lehane puts to T McG's account of that meeting which is that Taylor said he had been used by Callinan and NOS to circulate neg texts about McCabe
#DisclosuresTribunal Taylor denies telling McGuinness this. Asked why he would make this up, Taylor says he can't explain other ppl's evidence
#DisclosuresTribunal Ross Fanning, for Paul Williams, can Taylor give account of any single neg briefing about McCabe to PW. Taylor says he can't give any detail..says they were opportunistic, moments presented themselves..
#DisclosuresTribunal Fanning asks can he give any specific day, week, month or occasion of any neg briefing. Taylor says he can't. Fanning calls up PW's evidence to the tribunal disclosuretribunal.ie/en/DIS/DAY%201…
#DisclosuresTribunal Fanning reads out Paul Williams' evidence in which he said: "I was never briefed by Dave Taylor or Nóirín O'Sullivan or Martin Callinan or any of them. It's not the way it would happen with me."
#DisclosuresTribunal Fanning reads out: "After I interviewed her I contacted Dave Taylor, told him what I was looking at, asked him questions. He made a throwaway remark that it was known in the Park, as in the Phoenix Park, and he suggested it was known in government..."
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] "But it was --it was a passing comment, and I actually reported that back to her, I told her [Ms D] what he told me." Fanning says that's only matter Taylor put to PW. Taylor disagrees.
#DisclosuresTribunal Fanning puts it to T that it's unfortunate for him that journalists don't support what he's saying. After asking him if he could explain this, T says he can't comment on their position. Fanning suggests it's b/c his (Taylor) evidence is untrue. T disagrees
