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it seems like just yesterday i was livetweeting an all day city council retreat. today’s is at cityspace downtown, from 10-5.
they’ve got the same paid facilitator as the january retreat. at least they heard the feedback about the location last time — january’s meeting was at morven farm, a former slave plantation in the county.
starting off just 15min late with a decision not to review the ground rules from jan’s meeting, but a quick reiteration that everyone will be using each other’s first names. how collegial.
they agree they have to end promptly at 5 so folks can get to the comp plan meeting tonight
they agree they have to end promptly at 5 so folks can get to the comp plan meeting tonight
reviewing the changes to city council meetings they made at january’s retreat: heather says the 6:30 start time was a good change. uh guys, you’ve literally never actually started at 6:30. check the first tweet in every council thread i’ve posted since february.
heather also says the 2min response from council they added to matters by the public has been good... but is very frustrated that the public has been using that time to actually try to have a conversation.
facilitator prompts nikuyah for comment: she has none.
facilitator prompts nikuyah for comment: she has none.
wes pushes back in favor of dialogue, heather & kathy are concerned about a “free for all.”
kathy: “community matters is not a town hall.”
facilitator: “we’re gonna talk about other” opportunities for community engagement.
when? they said that in january, too.
kathy: “community matters is not a town hall.”
facilitator: “we’re gonna talk about other” opportunities for community engagement.
when? they said that in january, too.
mike: “it takes a very long time to get to regular business”
apparently council aims to end at 11pm due to public transit ending then... this has happened maybe once in recent memory?
“we have time limits on the agenda we’re just blowing past.”
apparently council aims to end at 11pm due to public transit ending then... this has happened maybe once in recent memory?
“we have time limits on the agenda we’re just blowing past.”
kathy: public hearings take a long time, maybe on nights when there are public hearings, we cut back on other agenda items?
mike: those agenda items will just pile up
wes agrees with kathy (so do i)
mike: those agenda items will just pile up
wes agrees with kathy (so do i)
mike thinks getting rid of the time estimates will help...? i guess it’s more honest. not sure how it actually changes anything.
(my understanding is that the times on the agenda are limits for COUNCIL’S discussion/staff presentation, not total time including public comment)
(my understanding is that the times on the agenda are limits for COUNCIL’S discussion/staff presentation, not total time including public comment)
the facilitator is gently encouraging discussion on how to keep things more brief. i think what really needs to be said is that kathy needs to not try to get the first & last word on every single issue...
aha, finally someone says it: we have NOT actually started at 6:30! we can’t talk about scheduling issues without addressing the fact that we’re routinely starting 15+ minutes late (as we did today!)
i wish i had a copy of today’s agenda... is there one? @Suarez_CM? @seantubbs?
city attorney reminding council that the rules prohibit people from “just calling out” and “have to be recognized to speak.”
kathy firmly states she would like to keep that rule. good luck enforcing it. cracking down has historically NOT resulted in better meetings.
kathy firmly states she would like to keep that rule. good luck enforcing it. cracking down has historically NOT resulted in better meetings.
nikuyah: “the issue is not whether people know the rules or not.”
mike says maybe they don’t... (we do.)
mike says maybe they don’t... (we do.)
nikuyah: “i have been unwilling to have people escorted out by the police. we have had people arrested and charged. it has not helped.”
THANK YOU MAYOR WALKER. using the police to maintain order in council chambers will not result in more order.
THANK YOU MAYOR WALKER. using the police to maintain order in council chambers will not result in more order.
since nikuyah became mayor, we HAVE seen fewer disruptions. former mayor mike signer’s style of using the police to silence every minor disruption was inflammatory and resulted in far greater disorder.
city attorney brown suggests councilors can request permission from mayor to have a dialogue with the member of the public during their 2min response. this sounds like a formalization of what’s already happening (and mostly working).
mike & kathy hate it, obviously.
mike & kathy hate it, obviously.
kathy is concerned that addressing concerns of the public is “unfair” to others who have signed up to speak. how so? they’ll still get their turn. it’s UNFAIR to ignore valid community concerns.
the facilitator suggests they “experiment” with it.
the facilitator suggests they “experiment” with it.
facilitator: “blowing through” scheduled time limits “is tough on people psychologically.”
mike says it’s very challenging for him to be at meetings past midnight because he gets up at 5:30. buddy, it’s hard on all of us & it ain’t even our job.
mike says it’s very challenging for him to be at meetings past midnight because he gets up at 5:30. buddy, it’s hard on all of us & it ain’t even our job.
mike starts suggesting something i’ve been saying FOR MONTHS. more meetings that are shorter.
wes laughs, turns around and points at me, acknowledging that it’s something i’ve been in favor of.
wes laughs, turns around and points at me, acknowledging that it’s something i’ve been in favor of.
kathy is worried that “special meetings” outside the existing schedule are bad because “the public needs predictability.” wes has long been opposed to my “more meetings” idea, in general. but how else can we get the same amount done while also ending by 11?
my feeling has long been that we should have twice as many council meetings that are half as long. maybe not always mondays! alternate meetings between presentations/resolutions & hearings, maybe.
currently council has to get agenda items to staff 10 business days before meetings bc that leaves staff only 4 business days to prepare the agenda background. those docs are routinely 100s of pages long. law requires the agenda to be public 5 days before the meeting (i believe?)
heather is very emotionally calling for an end to “very personal attacks” on city staff.” she seems to be referring to a specific incident, but i’m not sure what it is.
mike seems to be agreeing, citing regulations against defamatory language, says it isn’t fair because staff members can’t respond.
wes points out again that councilors themselves have had some harsh words for staff.
wes points out again that councilors themselves have had some harsh words for staff.
kathy & heather respond to wes simultaneously, making it incomrehensible.
wes: how people qualify “personal attacks” is relative. residents should be able to bring grievances about experiences with city staff to council.
wes: how people qualify “personal attacks” is relative. residents should be able to bring grievances about experiences with city staff to council.
heather: “people don’t wanna come to the meetings because they don’t want to be completely humiliated and personally attacked.”
nikuyah pushes back on this sob story: these are people who have had access to these meetings their entire lives
nikuyah pushes back on this sob story: these are people who have had access to these meetings their entire lives
white fragility isn’t a good argument for shouting down marginalized people, heather.
kathy says personal attacks are protected speech. didn’t expect that from her 🤔
“it’s out of nowhere TO YOU...” wes trying to explain to heather that people’s complaints are valid & based on longstanding, deep issues. she’s not hearing it. the need for civility is so deeply entrenched in white fragility.
nikuyah finally asks heather specifically what she’s talking about, i’m still not clear on the incident she’s referencing. she sounds near tears, though.
city atty now chiming in.
“i hesitate to encourage making another rule that is difficult to enforce” — without consensus from council, it just won’t work. “everybody has to buy into it.”
she recommends individual councilors call out comments they find inappropriate as needed.
“i hesitate to encourage making another rule that is difficult to enforce” — without consensus from council, it just won’t work. “everybody has to buy into it.”
she recommends individual councilors call out comments they find inappropriate as needed.
now beginning agenda item #2, 40 minutes late. 
discussing reinstating the work session on the first thursday of the month. these were the norm for a long time, unclear when or why they stopped, though maurice alludes to it being a transparency issue. the meetings are public but weren’t broadcast live in the past.
asst. city mgr clarifies they were a placeholder and didn’t actually take place every month.
jones: and we do have the technology now to broadcast these live, just like council meetings.
jones: and we do have the technology now to broadcast these live, just like council meetings.
these would be so helpful. council routinely appear unprepared at meetings. if they had a chance to discuss some issues ahead of time, council meetings would probably be smoother (and maybe shorter!)
sounds like the work session is a yes... going to schedule one on housing.
now moving on to discuss possibility of town halls.
now moving on to discuss possibility of town halls.
mike: in the past, most issues brought up at town halls are things that are actually issues for staff (potholes, etc.)
mike, now long has it been? i imagine it’s not pothole-focused now. come talk to us.
mike, now long has it been? i imagine it’s not pothole-focused now. come talk to us.
i feel this discussion coming on again...
note that NONE of those public engagement suggestions discussed at january’s council retreat (neighborhood town halls, monthly policy town halls, etc) have even BEGUN to come to fruition.
heather says she attends some regularly scheduled neighborhood association meetings. paige is asking if the neighborhood town halls should be attached to these existing meetings.
apparently there are 19 neighborhoods in cville. unclear if they all have neighborhood associations? (anybody know?)
mike suggests making a master calendar of these meetings and maybe neighborhood associations can put in official requests to have one or more councilors visit their meetings.
sorry, we’re in the weeds defining “work session” v “round table” v “town hall” v “office hours” ....
but i missed some of it while reading the decision judge moon issued this morning about how cops don’t actually have to stop violent crimes in progress
but i missed some of it while reading the decision judge moon issued this morning about how cops don’t actually have to stop violent crimes in progress
heather is in favor of city council having their own social media account, separate from their individual platforms AND separate from the existing city accounts.
sorry, i zoned out for a second but then i heard mike complain that he has “six whole hours of work to do” at his day job and he can’t be expected to also do a tweet at the end of the day. they need staff help for social media.
the city’s communication director said they don’t have the capacity to offer additional help for council’s proposed social media accounts. wes says they definitely need to hire someone full time to livetweet meetings, respond to people on facebook, etc.
comms director: “we don’t get a lot of comments on posts, but we do get people coming onto our page and leaving feedback” about city issues they can’t get ahold of anyone else for — someone recently posted on facebook about a water main break at a public park.
the city communications director probably shouldn’t be the one handling that? none of the city councilors were aware of that incident.
heather condescendingly says we should “educate” the public on the proper way to communicate these issues. comms director wheeler says actually that person did the right thing - they couldn’t get someone on the phone, they found another way & it got fixed.
“those are killing us,” kathy on the FOIA requests.
they’re discussing some kind of possible new email tracking setup. why aren’t they using a basic CRM? have any of them ever worked in customer support before? because that’s what this job IS.
the facilitator reminds us we’re about an hour and fifteen minutes behind schedule.
heather is VERY concerned about having too many emails.
heather is VERY concerned about having too many emails.
nikuyah asks about the existence of a consolidated community calendar. sounds like there are a number of local efforts to do this... but nothing from the city itself.
heather says she and kathy found out about a memorial day event “at the last minute” and it would’ve been “very embarrassing” for the city if no one from council had attended. she agrees there should be some central community events calendar.
this is actually something i’ve been thinking about for a long time! there are a number of places to find info like this, but i’d love to see one comprehensive charlottesville community events calendar.
maurice: so even if there is a calendar, how will that information be relayed to councilors? he literally said they shouldn’t have to LOOK AT A CALENDAR to determine which events they want to/should attend. are they implying they need more staff?
wes has been promoting this idea for a while: post-council meeting recap videos. other cities do this & it’s a really good idea. wouldn’t be a huge investment of time or money.
city council meetings are SIX HOURS LONG. but a 5 minutes recap video about what got voted on... that would be easy & make meeting business more accessible to the public.
wes is insistent that we actually set a launch date, mike is hesitant to commit to anything until the entire project has been planned to death. they’re going to hold off until they have the new staff to work on it. we should see this project in the new fiscal year.
the facilitator gently encourages council to work through lunch, as we’re already an hour and fifteen minutes behind & kathy has added an item to the agenda (what? when? c’mon kathy)
heather is the only one very opposed to the idea.
heather is the only one very opposed to the idea.
quick aside while they’re on break: i see continued pushback against using facebook to broadcast city events “because not everyone uses facebook.” but this is a SUPPLEMENT to other strategies & platforms. not everyone has TV, not everyone has internet, not everyone can attend...
refusing to use a MAJOR PLATFORM that reaches a huge number of people (IN ADDITION TO OTHER EXISTING METHODS!) because it makes (specifically old) people uncomfortable is very weird. why the pushback? no one is saying to use it exclusively. it’s diversity of tactics, y’all.
nikuyah’s personal efforts to engage folks online have been very positive & have had a measurable impact. posting city meetings as facebook events has absolutely boosted engagement. the city should be doing that work, though.
the “ten minute” break before their working lunch is 25 minutes and counting. considering one of the issues discussed at this meeting was poor timekeeping at meetings, i assume irony is on the catering menu.
yes, absolutely! there has been a definitely improvement since he was hired. there’s just a lot to be done.
now starting agenda item #3. two hours late, but they won’t be taking the one hour lunch.
one problem with a working lunch is now i have to hear mike talk with his mouth full.
the law requires physical mailings & advertisements must be posted for public hearings - paige says they need an -additional- $30k per year for these announcements. (i wonder how these are done? is there a more affordable option for bulk mailing?)
the planning commission has spent as much as $4000 in a month on mailings and notices.
i can’t even tell what they are deciding. so much equivocating and quibbling.
now on to the issue of out of budget cycle funding requests. (council clerk) paige says the current informal process for handling these has worked in the past. mike has taken issue with this publicly in the past.
some tension between mike & wes. there seems to be a lot of barely concealed hostility here... this is not new for mike.
what he’s trying to say without saying it is “why do we have to give money to marginalized people instead of my friends?”
what he’s trying to say without saying it is “why do we have to give money to marginalized people instead of my friends?”
momentary distraction from a nazi sending me more threats of corrective rape and woodchipper “jokes.” back on track listening...
quick note for mike, $3000 divided by 5 councilors is $600, not $500
sounds like not a lot was decided here? mike suggested staff write up a policy. moving on to the “facilitators/trainings” agenda items.
city attorney reminding council that all contracts are with “the city of charlottesville,” not as “x department” or as council. the city itself is always the party named. thrilling stuff.
contracts $5k-$50k require quotes. unclear to me if the RFP/bidding process kicks in after $50k or if it applies to these dollar amounts as well?
oh spicy. nikuyah says kathy has taken this issue entirely out of context. i’m not sure exactly what’s being referred to here, but kathy is being very defensive. something about a $10k contract nikuyah signed (as mayor, on behalf of the city)
this is related to some july training... anybody know more about this?
the RFQ process requires them to ATTEMPT to get at least four quotes for this upcoming training, but they may not actually receive four or more.
guys, this is a real thrill ride.
guys, this is a real thrill ride.
mike has concerns that some email exchanges between councilors have had “issues of substance” that should be saved for meetings. city atty says she hasn’t seen anything of concern, they just can’t *vote* on anything via email.
she’s being clearer about this than at the january meeting. says as long as they don’t start trying to urge each other to vote a certain way/declare how they will vote, it’s ok.
kathy was the one with a lot of anxiety about this back in january. despite assurance from the city attorney, mike is very uneasy about it.
damn it’s like y’all aren’t here for painstakingly detailed coverage of a small town city council’s email communication policy
sorry did kathy just suggest councilors produce 5 minute update videos about the various committees they are on? that’s a really good idea — board & commission meetings are even less accessible than regular council meetings.
paige asking for clarification - do councilors still feel that they should be expected to vote “in alignment with council’s positions” when voting on boards & commissions they serve on? mike says that’s outdated but doesn’t want to talk about it?
kathy is looking at the provision that would require a councilor serving on a board to go with council policy when voting on board matters even if they disagree... (what governs “council policy” though? are all official council positions available for public viewing?)
addressing an email kathy sent everyone last night at 9pm re: whether or not they’re moving forward with a job description for an asst city manager position. nikuyah has previously indicated she wants to talk about this position at the retreat.
kathy delicately says “we’ve had a change in city management” since this was last discussed — they recently decided not to renew city manager jones’ contract.
perhaps it would be helpful to limit kathy’s remarks to a certain number of minutes... she has gotten lost. the facilitator gently asked, “what’s your question?” after a few minutes of rambling. i’m still not sure where she’s trying to go.
“can i suggest that that’s probably enough on this particular topic?” this poor facilitator. kathy needs more active management.
back from a break and on to the final agenda item
councilor signer catching up on my tweets
since we haven’t quite figured out adequate public engagement in this town, maybe mike will see this here...
here’s the full meeting packet if you’re interested in the efficiency study updates
charlottesville.org/Home/ShowDocum…
charlottesville.org/Home/ShowDocum…
a LOT of talk about staff... but not a word on hiring a new city manager. that’s kind of a huge oversight.
the city is planning to hold “at least” two town halls over the summer about the upcoming A12 anniversary. i asked the comms director if these are intended to be more informative about the city’s plans for august or more about hearing the public... it seems they haven’t decided.
this powerpoint about the results of the city employee survey is full of surprises like “people don’t like paying to park to go to work” and “don’t spend money on doing more surveys until you’ve acted on the results you have”
heather is really struggling with the idea that salaried employees aren’t paid overtime if they work over 40 hours a week. welcome to capitalism, heather. it’s shitty & exploitative.
the facilitator suggests we adjourn... kathy asks if they’re ready for monday’s council meeting, asks if there is anything they will wish they’d talked about. no takers. surprisingly ahead of schedule. the time estimates on the agenda were way off (as always).
council is now moving to the small conference room for a close session to discuss city of charlottesville v lightfoot militia et al (the ongoing litigation re: armed militias in which many parties such as the league of the south & NSM have already settled)
redneck revolt is still fighting this suit. on its surface it seems like a good idea right? keep armed groups out of town? but it’s a terrible precedent.
