Thread by @Delafina777

We need to talk about how patriarchy hurts men.

We need to talk about it because the ways in which they're harmed cause them to harm people who aren't men, and more importantly, because they are human beings being harmed.

HOWEVER: that can't be as a derailment of other convos

The vast majority of the time I see MEN talking about how patriarchy hurts men is when they're showing up in conversations about how it hurts women specifically or people who aren't men generally.

It's used to shut down the conversation, center men, derail, absolve.

I don't usually see men starting conversations about how patriarchy hurts men on their own, in public spaces, and not off a retweet of women talking about sexism, etc.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen--I'm saying it's not common.

And it feels like when men want to talk about how patriarchy hurts them, they're still waiting for women to start that conversation.

Which is, like, yeah, we know you lean on us to do your emotions for you, but you gotta grow up and lead this yourselves. medium.com/@emmalindsay/m…

And I feel like it's pretty easy to see reasons why men are willing to piggyback on other conversations about how the patriarchy harms people, but not to *start* conversations about how it harms *them* that aren't a response to women.

First off, any conversation about how patriarchy harms men has to also reckon with how it benefits them, because the two are inextricably intertwined, which means that it's gotta balance both trauma and culpability.

That's a type of vulnerability, which patriarchy disallows men

And also, just *starting* a conversation about "I have been hurt by patriarchy," if you're a man, is putting yourself in a role that I'm pretty sure most men (subconsciously, at least) see as feminine, which means having to untangle contempt for femininity.

Far easier to just join conversations people who aren't men are having about the harm patriarchy does and say, "it hurts us too." That takes far less risk.

And the vulnerability isn't just to having your own feelings, or not fulfilling what you've been taught to believe is proper masculinity.

It's also going to invite a bunch of other men to abuse you, because they don't want patriarchy's hegemony threatened.

But I dunno what to tell you.

You gotta do it, or the world's going to stay broken and you're going to keep hurting people who aren't men, other men, and yourself.

But if there's anything you should START by learning from us, it's that conversations about this stuff can start lighthearted.

It's that normalization of having them is hard at first but reinforces its own success.

Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you except that you should listen & be present & humble in conversations about how patriarchy harms people who aren't men, and that you need to adult up & *start your own* conversations about how it hurts men, not expect us to do it for you.

Oh, and I know these convos do happen in private.

That's good and also insufficient. I know you're afraid to have them in public.

You need to do it anyway, so that everyone who needs to see it sees it.

Like the rest of us are all out here dealing with this stuff both in public and in private because we don't have any other choice.

Don't use your privilege to coddle yourselves.

Oh, and you need to start out by not expecting sympathy/support from women.

Not because we aren't sympathetic or willing to help, but because expecting us to manage your emotions for you is a cultural addiction and you need to START by ceasing to feed it.