Good morning, #AALS2019! It's the last session & the LWRR Section presents: Building bridges between legal ed, practice, & the judiciary.
On the panel: Hon. Jeffrey Foster from North Carolina; Paul Johnson, managing partner at Johnson Croyder in Savannah; Samantha Fassett, assoc at Johnson Croyder; Prof. Susan Thrower of Campbell Law; Prof. Christopher Ogalla of Campbell.
Q: Where have judge & practitioners noticed gaps in the legal ed of new lawyers?
Panelist: Practitioners deal mostly w clients, so need to be able to communicate effectively w non-law-trained people; law school doesn't give students much practice at that
Panelist: Lawyers need to develop a bedside manner w clients: explain legal concepts simply, acknowledge client anxiety, "parent" in a sense
Panelist: Law students also need practice communicating w other professionals. How to deal w legal secretaries, law clerks, court clerks, etc
Good point here: As a young lawyer, you may have authority over a legal secretary who is much older & more experienced than you; it's a weird power dynamic
Paul Johnson: Two rules for new lawyers: Don't be a jerk & don't tell me I'm wrong
There's a misperception that being a good lawyer means fighting every fight--opposing every continuance, etc. That's not true. Be wise enough to pick good battles.
Me: Can confirm. When I was a new lawyer, I thought being tough = being a jerk. I hated myself within one year.
Mr. Johnson & Judge Foster: Don't call the judge every time there's a dispute. Don't be that lawyer. (This is obvs not exclusive to new lawyers--but students could learn about power dynamics bn lawyers & judges)
Mr. Johnson: New lawyers are too often timid w creative arguments. Don't be afraid to use non-binding authority + policy to make arg for the result your client wants
Judge Foster: He was taught to break everything down to a 5th grade level. In his experience that's good advice for clients & juries bc you can be sure they understand
Me: I have a 6th grader. Breaking things down to about that level isn't too simplistic (& not that easy)--10/11yos can understand everything if you explain it right
Judge: Important for students to absorb respect for the law & its traditions. Wants students to have a sense of reverence for the law's grandeur.
Judge: Be wary of attitude that you should do whatever you can to make opposing counsel's life miserable
Judge: Reaching out to notify opposing counsel of missed deadline will build goodwill and may lead to better resolution later. Building goodwill will likely help you later
Audience Q: Do you see weaknesses in "hard" skills of new lawyers?
Ms. Fassett: She wishes she'd had more legal writing assignments. More memos, more briefs, more practice would have helped develop those skills more
Forms are useful, but not a way to learn how to do your practice. So it took a while to learn how to do pleadings, discovery, motions, etc. Would have been useful to practice those things in law school
Ms. Fassett: Law school is mainly for teaching people how to think a certain way, so probably not a good use of time to teach "how to file X" etc--but students need to at least see pleadings
Judge Foster: Notices the stronger some new lawyers' hard skills, the weaker their soft skills (maybe bc they think being smart is enough)
Mr. Johnson: Please teach your students to proofread.
Audience: WE ARE TRYING OMG 😂
Audience: WE ARE TRYING OMG 😂
Audience Q: She's a prof in the UK & assures us that poor proofreading is an international problem
Audience Q: Do you see the trends of combativeness/obstreperousness more in male or female lawyers?
Judge Foster: Observes that women have a harder time than men. Behavior perceived as strength in a male lawyer is seen as unacceptable in a female lawyer. He tries to watch for & mitigate in his courtroom
Audience Q: It's hard to teach students civility bc it doesn't come up much in simulations, since students don't have a dog in the fight. She uses an example from her own practice when she wrote a scorched earth letter, has students rewrite to preserve the relationship
Audience: Car time & waiting time used to be when young lawyers would hear stories that taught about civility & other soft skills; that's disappearing bc everyone's on their phones
Mr. Johnson concurs. For divorce lawyers in the 90s, you spent Fridays waiting in the courthouse. Would hear all kinds of talk. Now everyone is working online.
Moderator (Prof. Elizabeth Berenguer, Campbell Law): Encourages collaboration on assignments bc that reflects most lawyers' working process
Prof. Ogolla: It's important to teach local rules/standing orders bc they create the culture of the practice area. Substantive bankruptcy is one thing; knowing that local rules prohibit perfume in bkr court is something else
Prof. Ogalla reads some Texas local rules that prohibit perfume & lists very specific kinds of clothes that are/aren't acceptable in court. Wow!
Prof. Thrower: Campbell Law students formed a committee to focus on ethics & professionalism. Impressive!
Prof. Thrower lets students pick a working group for collaboration & makes them submit written plan for how the work will proceed, dispute resolution, etc
Audience Q: How do you inculcate respect for the law's grandeur?
Prof Ogolla: There's only so much we can teach in law school. We can't teach how to be a responsible adult.
Prof Ogolla: There's only so much we can teach in law school. We can't teach how to be a responsible adult.
Prof. Ogolla: If you weren't raised right, there's not much we can do. (Me: Can confirm)
Judge Foster: Visiting the courthouse seems to help. Shows students the arena. If that doesn't instill fear & awe, nothing will
Mr. Johnson: Part of respect for the law is respect for all the people in it: Defendants as well as prosecutors, bailiffs as well as judges. Disrespect for the court janitor is disrespect for the law
Prof. Berenguer: She has students study Gideon v. Wainwright, in which attys relied on tons of secondary sources in briefing--before internet! Makes the point about the amount of study & dedication law practice requires
Prof. Berenguer creates problems w unsympathetic clients to make students find compassion/professionalism in difficult circumstances
Audience Q: In day-to-day practice, how do you find yourselves communicating w each other? How do law school skills help or not?
Ms. Fassett: Highlights the difference between communication preferences of her two supervisors. Suggests importance of flexibility & "customer service" for associates
Panel is wrapping up. Thanks for reading along, #AALS2019
And thanks to our excellent panelists! #AALS2019 
