Thread by @MFrizzell85

The @CityofShawneeKS council chambers is filling in quick.

The council committee will be discussing a non-discrimination ordinance tonight.

@CityofShawneeKS Meeting underway now. Standing room only with overflow seating in the lobby.

Here's the link to the full agenda: cityofshawnee.civicweb.net/Portal/Meeting…

@CityofShawneeKS First agenda item is related to the "Nieman Corridor Catalyst Site."

@CityofShawneeKS Box Realestate Development is proposing a multi-family development.

Presentation from Russell Pearson.

@CityofShawneeKS As this presentation goes on, city staff has a sign-up sheet circulating for those who want to speak on the second agenda item.

There's already been one small argument about the order people are being allowed to sign up. Staff started the list with those standing, someone who has been here long enough to get a seat, was upset the list went to those who had not been here as long.

Back to the presentation that's happening now...

This is an approximately 2.05 acre piece of land.

It sits between Old Shawnee Pizza and Russell Florist & Gifts on the east side of Nieman Road.

I forgot to include it at the beginning, but this is the council committee meeting, which is chaired by the council president @StephWingMeyer.

Councilman Mickey Sandifer (Ward 4) is absent.

All other council committee members are present.

@StephWingMeyer The Nieman Catalyst site proposal is for a mixed-use development, which the developer is calling a "European-influenced vertical live/work project."

Townhomes would be available by lease or lease-to-own.

@StephWingMeyer Also worth noting, @shawneeKSpolice Chief Rob Moser has a seat at the end of the left side of the dais. Major Jay Brunner is standing near an emergency exit behind the dais.

Can't say that I've ever seen that in meetings I've attended.

They're usually in the back of the room.

@StephWingMeyer @shawneeKSpolice Now into council discussion.

Interesting note, no mention of the price the developer is proposing to pay the city for the approximately 2.05 acres.

The agenda information from the city says $144,000 for the site.

@StephWingMeyer @shawneeKSpolice Councilman Matt Zimmerman (Ward 1) says he thinks this would be a great site for this proposal.

Councilwoman Stephanie Meyers (Ward 3) says she agrees with Mr. Zimmerman's statements.

Councilwoman Lisa Larson-Bunnell asked the developer if he was able to provide a price range.

He was not able to provide any numbers, saying they're still looking at that.

Now into public comment on this item.

First comment is about handicap accessibility.

Developer says there will be opportunities for stairlifts and elevators for the residential components on the upper floors.

Next public comment is from Tina Webb who lives on Roger Road directly behind this site.

Says the site will bring in a lot of noise and more issues with headlights shining into her home.

Suggests a privacy fence be built on the west side of her property to create "protection."

Another public comment, this one coming from the overflow seating in the lobby.

Rodney Houck is next.

Mr. Houck says he thinks "you're missing part of the market."

Adds that he and his wife are looking for more one-level options.

No additional public comment.

Motion to move this proposal forward is approved unanimously.

Council president Stephanie Meyer now giving some background on the way the second agenda item will work.

We're going for "about" two hours, then there may be a "comfort break."

First up is a presentation from City Attorney Ellis Rainey.

For those interested in watching live, @shawmissionpost has a Facebook Live going on their page.

Facebook.com/ShawneeMission…

@shawmissionpost All of the information Mr. Rainey is going over is included in the agenda packet.

I'll save my fingers for public and committee comments.

@shawmissionpost Going to questions to Mr. Rainey from the committee.

@shawmissionpost First up is Councilman Zimmerman.

He's asking about businesses which provide services like bakeries, florists, photographers, etc..

Suggests a "variance" or "waiver" for those business providers who want to be exempt from this.

Zimmerman suggests these service providers who want to be exempt from this could post something on their doors, websites, etc..

Mr. Rainey says he believes this would fall into the religious belief category that has already been mentioned.

Says he feels anyone who would want such an exemption may feel that the city is restricting their beliefs.

Rainey says he isn't familiar with any cases on this.

Councilman Dr. Mike Kemmling (Ward 2) was up next, but says Mr. Rainey addressed his question in the response to the previous question.

Next is Councilwoman Lisa Larson-Bunnell (Ward 3).

She's asking for clarification on the religious freedom act and Kansas statute.

Council president Stephanie Meyer cuts off the discussion, saying that these questions are "putting the cart before the horse."

First up is a supporter of seeing the city pursue an NDO. He is a Lenexa resident.

"I'm here to talk about love. I'm here to talk about understanding."

Says he doesn't believe that's possible in a world where he can be discriminated against for being gay.

Next up is an Olathe resident who says she is an Olathe resident here representing the ACLU.

Says she wants to address the "scope of the need" for an NDO in Shawnee and other cities.

The committee seems to have some printed information from the speaker.

That information is not visible to those of us in the room, nor is it on the city website at this time.

"Providing this ordinance would allow Shawnee to get ahead of any potential lawsuits."

Says "this type of ordinance provides a fair playing field."

Next is Les Lampe a resident of Shawnee.

Says he is not gay, but he and his wife have a gay son.

Mr. Lampe is thanking the city council for being responsive to the two emails that he sent to them.

Lampe says the constitution protects "the same liberties that all of us cherish."

Says his son should be able to go "have a meal with his partner and not be shunned."

Next is Susan Ruiz, a democratic state representative of the district 23 and Shawnee resident.

Says she is one of two openly gay state representatives.

Adds that she and her wife chose the home the live in on Bond Street because it is a diverse and welcoming neighborhood.

Between Mr. Lampe's statement and Ms. Ruiz's statements, Ben Terrill called for a "point of order."

Mr. Terrill says that Mr. Lampe was speaking to a "certain part" of the room instead of addressing the council committee.

Council president Meyer stated that the speakers can "look wherever they would like."

Back to Ms. Ruiz;

She said that the statehouse is being "held hostage" by representatives who do not want to pass this kind of legislation. She asked the council to not follow the same route.

Next is Angeliina Lawson, Shawnee resident and elected to the JCCC board of trustees.

"This isn't about a red party or a blue party, this is about green, money."

Says an NDO would show that Shawnee is "open for business."

Next is Chris Reeve (last name spelling may not be accurate, he did not give an address) says he is a Prairie Village resident.

Mr. Reeve is quoting the pope and a cardinal.

"We're seeing a change in the world."

Says he believes that every person has the right to practice their faith and not have another's faith "used as a baseball bat" against them.

Earlier Ms. Meyer made a point that applause should be held until the end.

Now there seems to be snapping of fingers after speakers.

Next is Judy Swisher, a Shawnee resident who says she has some questions. Says her first was answered by City Attorney Ellis Rainey.

Now citing a city ordinance which she says protects the right of privacy for all while in public places.

"Right now this law protects them."

She says this ordinance makes it "criminal for any man to go into a place where young girls would expect to be private."

"We have to be careful that we don't go down a slippery slope."

Ms. Meyer has informed the speaker that she has reached her five-minute time limit.

Next up is Karen Lampe, a Shawnee resident and pastor.

Says she's asking the council to have "moral courage."

Pastor Lampe says there have been a large number of suicides.

Pastor Lampe talking about an individual she has counseled previously who had attempted suicide after she says he was ostracized by his family, church, and community in Texas, before he moved to Kansas.

Next is Pamela McCulley, a Shawnee resident who gave the same address as an earlier speaker, Susan Ruiz.

Says she has testified before the state legislature on this topic. And moved to Shawnee recently.

Ms. McCulley says she was discriminated against "15 years ago" for "simply talking about being a lesbian."

Next is a Gardner resident who says he is a pastor here in Shawnee.

I couldn't hear his name, people in the row behind me talking amongst themselves.

He's in favor of the city pursuing an NDO.

Says religious convictions cannot be used against people due to their race, so it shouldn't be used for those who are born gay.

Next is Owen Donohoe, Shawnee resident and State representative of District 39.

Mr. Donohoe talking about the Catholic church in regards to the protections for LGBT individuals.

Mr. Donohoe says this is the "foundation" of his faith.

"My solution to the problem is very simple."

Says a 'C' needs to be added to LGBT.

Next is Sarah Carmody, a Shawnee resident.

Says religious freedom is already protected at the state and federal level.

For those listening, that was Councilman Jim Neighbor's cellphone with the musical ringtone, twice.

He has left the dais with his phone and walked out a door behind the dais.

Mr. Neighbor is back now.

Ms. Carmody says she supports the idea of "putting it on the wall" for those who want to be exempt from an NDO.

"This is an issue where everybody gets treated the same."

Another Shawnee resident up next. I won't attempt to misspell her name.

"I feel like, as a country, we are bending over backward to accommodate."

Says she applied online for a job yesterday and was asked her gender.

Says her options were, "male, female, other, or custom."

"We choose where we want to do business."

Adds that this proposed ordinance "is not Shawnee, Kansas."

And that it would cause discrimination where there isn't any now.

Next speaker is a Ms. Steins (I won't attempt to misspell her first name). She is a Shawnee resident.

"I oppose this ordinance for the obvious."

"Disagreeing is not discrimination."

"Laws can be unjust. There are laws that are unjust."

Says it is unacceptable for anyone to be treated without respect.

"But what about the rights of all Shawnee citizens?"

Says that it is her opinion that these types of laws "divide us."

Next is the Reverand from Sacred Heart Catholic Church.

Also opposed to the NDO.

Next is State Senator Mary Pilcher-Cook, who is a Shawnee resident.

Senator Pilcher-Cook says Kansas already has a state discrimination law.

State Senator Pilcher-Cook says the council would need to define what types of behavior are acceptable or unacceptable if such an ordinance were drafted.

There are three pages of names signed up to speak.

Next speaker is in favor of Shawnee "ensuring these protections."

"We're here today to talk about a democracy, not a theocracy."

Next speaker says her family has lived in Shawnee for more than 10 years. She did not state her address.

Says she is in support of this ordinance so that everyone feels "safe and protected."

Next is another Shawnee resident. Mr. Groth

Says he supports the city pursuing an NDO.

Adds that it would "protect the most vulnerable."

"I believe that we can be decent."

"We can protect basic civil rights."

Next is Tony Gillette, another Shawnee resident.

Mr. Gillette says he has lived in western Shawnee for 22 years.

Says he is opposed to the city adopting an NDO.

Unrelated, but "hello" to the person who keeps trying to connect to my WiFi hotspot.

Mr. Gillette says NDO belongs at the state or federal levels of government and not in municipal government.

"We should table this social issue."

"Don't let the city of Shawnee be a pawn."

Next is Ann Peterson who is a Shawnee resident.

And no, this isn't the same person who used to be a news anchor on a local TV station.

Says she is opposed to the NDO.

Next speaker was very brief. Gave her name and address, said she is opposed and walked away.

She is a Shawnee resident.

Next speaker is Gene Cramer, says he is a resident of Ward 4 in Shawnee.

Says homosexuality is a sin.

"We're not treating these people in love if we go along with what they're doing."

"Bruce Jenner, still a man."

Next is John Sheerin, a Lenexa resident. Says he lived in Shawnee until about a year ago.

Says he believes "marriage is between one man and one woman."

Next is another Shawnee resident, a Ms. Matlack.

I didn't catch her first name, again, more discussion from the row behind me.

Ms. Matlack says "these aren't special rights."

Says she and others are asking for those rights to be extended to a minority.

She says some of Shawnee's largest employers have policies in place which prohibit discrimination based on the same things an NDO would protect.

Says she hopes Shawnee will do the same.

There are 15 more names on page two of the list.

Nearly three pages total.

Next is Steven Rickie, a Shawnee resident.

Says he is a "gay male."

"I grew up with a feeling of not being ok with who I am."

"I am thankful to USD 232 for passing a non-discrimination order."

"Hearing some of the things I've heard today, I feel like it is segregation again."

Next is Austin Boatright, a Shawnee resident who says he is opposed to this ordinance.

Says an NDO would cause a "snowballing" effect.

Now taking a five minute "comfort break."

We're getting started again, after a "five-minute comfort break," which lasted 14 minutes.

First up after the break is Diane Kuhn, a Shawnee resident who says she supports the city pursuing an NDO.

Next is Gary Marrit. He did not give his address or city of residence.

Marrit says, "children need fathers."

"They need truth."

Says he is "totally opposed" to anyone being discriminated against.

Next is Linda Stoner, a resident of Shawnee who says she lives in an apartment.

"I sincerely hope that you have an NDO generated and that you pass it."

Next up is Tom Zarda, a resident of Shawnee on Mize Road.

Mr. Zarda says that an NDO would cause some to lose their rights, while others gain rights. Says those who lose rights would have to defend their rights.

Next is Grant Owens. Says he supports an NDO.

"Shawnee has the opportunity to lead, where they [Olathe] won't."

Next is another Shawnee resident who says he is in support of an NDO.

Says Shawnee is not a "warm and welcoming community" that other speakers have referenced.

He has also pointed out that there's "only one black person" in the room.

"Love is not a zero-sum game."

Next up is Tom Cox, Shawnee resident and republican State Representative of District 17.

State Representative Cox is in support of the city pursuing an NDO.

"When you say, where's the discrimination? It's right in front of you."

Cox says the LGBT community gaining these rights would not change the every day life of those who it doesn't impact.

"I do know people who were fired for being gay."

"As one of the representatives of Shawnee, we can't accomplish this at the state level right now."

Says since it can't currently be done at the state level that it "falls to you guys."

Next is an Olathe resident who says she supports the city pursuing an NDO.

Next is Josh Marvine, a Shawnee resident who supports the NDO.

Says no one is losing any rights. Says these are civil rights.

"We all believe that we are all created equal."

"Shawnee, you're really the only home I've ever known and I would be really, really, happy if you did this right."

Next is Greg Akridge, a Shawnee resident who says he has concerns about the NDO.

He says individuals could "wake up one day" and "feel like a woman."

"What is the urgency to act now?"

Says that these discussions are happening and "working their way through" and the state and federal levels of government.

Akridge thanking city staff for the thorough council packet with background on this topic.

Phil Ellsworth is next, another Shawnee resident.

Ellsworth says he has been trying to research what this ordinance could look like and he can't find that.

Ellsworth says, "new laws are not the issue."

Next up is Eric Skoglund, another Shawnee resident.

He started with thanking city staff, police, and the committee for "putting in the extra time tonight."

To which Police Chief Rob Moser remarked, "he gets 10 minutes!"

Mr. Skoglund says it will take years to determine whether or not Title VII covers this issue or not. and that Shawnee should act.

Next is Shannon Skoglund.

Says this is an issue of freedom from the fear of looking over your shoulder because of who you are.

Ms. Skoglund is also in support of the city pursuing an NDO.

"Trans-women are women."

Next speaker led with a joke, "almost good morning."

He did not give his name, address, or city of residence.

"I don't know why we're even having this discussion, this should be automatic."

He says the lives of most people will not be impacted by an NDO.

"I do not know the fear that they feel, but empathy is something that I feel is sorely lacking from some people in this room."

Next is Reverend Jennifer Thomas, a Shawnee resident.

She says she is an ally for the LGBT community.

"This isn't about special privileges, this is about creating justice."

Eight more names on the list who want to speak.

After that comes committee comments/discussion.

Next up is a 16-year-old Shawnee resident who says he is in support of the NDO.

Next up is Steve Hatesohl, another Shawnee resident.

Mr. Hatesohl does not support the NDO.

Next is Harold Spencer, another Shawnee resident.

"Why is this ordinance necessary, unless there is some kind of hidden agenda."

"I think it's a very weak argument to say that Shawnee should follow other cities, just because they passed an ordinance. Maybe Shawnee should lead."

Mr. Spencer also saying that he is "tired" of his race being compared to the issues being faced by the LGBT.

Andy Rondon is next to speak. Mr. Rondon is a candidate challenging councilman Eric Jenkins for the seat in Ward 2.

Mr. Rondon says he and his wife moved here two years ago.

Says Shawnee is a welcoming community and this is just a matter of "putting pen to paper."

Two more speakers remaining.

Next is a gentleman who says he lives in KCMO, but works at Shawnee Mission Northwest High School.

Says he is a gay man and supports the NDO.

"The partnership between a school and a community is absolutely vital to the success of students."

Says the city of Shawnee pursuing an NDO would "lay the groundwork" for his students.

Next up is Ray Erlichman, a Shawnee resident and frequent commenter during city council meetings.

Erlichman says "everyone in this room has faced some form of discrimination in their lives."

He says the background research done by Councilwoman Larson-Bunnell is a "hodgepodge" or "checkerboard pattern" of ordinances.

Adding that this "has to" happen at the state or federal level.

Councilwoman Larson-Bunnell correcting Erlichman that it was not her, it was City Attorney Ellis Rainey who gathered the background.

Next up is Renee Garnett, a Shawnee resident who says she has concerns about bathrooms when it comes to those who "do not identify" as their "anatomical gender."

"I don't believe that no one should be discriminated against."

Ms. Garnett says she doesn't believe that "we" have the knowledge or research to draft something that will protect everyone.

Next up is a Lawrence resident who says she represents a church group.

Says she is against the ordinance.

"The mear mention of the scripture should not make you cringe."

I have to say, as this woman speaks, there are some colorful comments coming from the room behind me.

"She's not stable."

"Typical right-winger."

Next up is another supporter of the NDO.

Next is Mary Raymond, a Shawnee resident who says she is opposed to "this proposition."

"There are many lawsuits in flight right now without interpretation."

That's the end of public comment.

52 speakers.

Now it's time for council committee comments and questions.

Councilman Eric Jenkins of Ward 2 is first.

He begins with thanking everyone who has spoken tonight.

Says he has concerns that he wants to share.

Jenkins says he believes that social issues belong at the state and federal level.

Jenkins says that adjudication of pending court cases would "shed some light" on how to proceed.

"Why the headlong rush, to solve a problem that doesn't exist?"

Jenkins says that if an NDO were approved the city would likely need to bring on additional staff and legal counsel.

Jenkins says that the city level of government "should not be involved in social issues."

Jenkins says he will vote no when it comes to moving forward with an NDO.

Councilwoman Lindsey Constance of Ward 4 is next to speak.

Ms. Constance starting off with thanking several people in the room for their empathy.

"I disagree that the problem doesn't exist."

Ms. Constance says workplace policies are not enough.

Constance says she supports the first option on the NDO.

Councilman Matt Zimmerman of Ward 1 is next.

Zimmerman says that he heard one thing from both sides, that discrimination shouldn't be tolerated.

Zimmerman says he also heard about "special rights."

He says that is "not at all" the case.

Zimmerman says he is "opposed to discrimination."

"This is absolutely accommodating religion in every fashion of the word."

Adds that this is a "common protection" that "goes both ways."

Zimmerman says he supports an NDO.

Council president Stephanie Meyer of Ward 3 is next.

Ms. Meyer says this is an issue that the city has been "studying" for quite some time.

Ms. Meyer says she supports an NDO.

"You are all seen and you are all loved."

Councilman Jim Neighbor of Ward 1 is next to speak.

Mr. Neighbor says he has a son who is gay and left Kansas City 20 years ago because he "wasn't comfortable."

Neighbor says he will be supporting the NDO, "because it is the right thing to do."

Councilwoman Lisa Larson-Bunnell of Ward 3 is next.

She says she had an "honest to goodness struggle" with this topic.

Ms. Larson-Bunnell says she agrees that it would be best for the state or federal levels of government to act on this.

Says she also understands that there are some who say Shawnee should wait until there are rulings on pending court cases.

Larson-Bunnell supports the NDO.

Councilman Mike Kemmling of Ward 2 will be first to speak on Wednesday morning.

Good morning!

Dr. Kemmling says some of the court rulings that have already been made create a "double standard."

"I think maybe these ordinances sound good, but don't offer equal protections to all."

Kemmling says he has questions as to whether an NDO would protect anyone from employment termination if there are other circumstances.

Kemmling says he disagrees with the idea that Shawnee would lose out on business if the NDO were not passed.

"I think it's pie in the sky to think this won't affect Christians."

Dr. Kemmling says he is "incredibly leery" of NDOs and cannot support it.

Councilwoman Larson-Bunnell now speaking to address some of the comments made by Dr. Kemmling.

She says she disagrees with his interpretation of some of the cases.

Dr. Kemmling has asked Ms. Larson-Bunnell for clarification on her comments now.

Larson-Bunnell says it is in the packet item that she prepared. She's looking for it now.

I'm not a lawyer, nor have I studied this packet in depth, so I won't attempt to translate everything being said as part of this very legal discussion into tweets.

Again, you can listen online through the city's website or on the Shawnee Mission Post Facebook Live.

We're back to Councilman Eric Jenkins now.

Jenkins says he wants to talk about the discrimination Ms. Constance spoke about.

Jenkins says the city has not heard "one instance" where someone has lost a job or not been served due to anything an NDO would prevent.

One of the pro-NDO speakers in the audience spoke up, saying, "it's because people like you don't want to hear it."

He was quickly asked to let the councilman speak.

We're now back to Dr. Kemmling with more comments.

He says that there are precedents on this council where there is pending litigation.

He's referencing the previous discussions of Tobacco 21

Dr. Kemmling also quoting the minutes related to a Vape shop case, which the council previously heard a presentation about and decided not to act due to pending litigation.

Now back to Ms. Larson-Bunnell who is clarifying more on the court case she was discussing with Dr. Kemmling.

No further comment from the committee.

Dr. Kemmling asking for the motion on the floor to be repeated.

Ms. Larson-Bunnell motions for city staff to draft an NDO to move to the council.

Roll call vote. 5-2.

Councilmembers Jenkins and Kemmling voting in opposition.

Thanks everyone for following along through a long one!

Here's @leahwankum's report on the meeting.

shawneemissionpost.com/2019/08/14/aft…