so this thread is a very false equivocation - the honor killings mentioned here have to do with the WHOLE family, not just the man of the house (as is the case in American "domestic disputes" such as the ones mentioned here) 1/
the fundamental difference is in WHOSE "honor" is being protected; in cultures such as the one I'm from, a "disgraced" woman doesn't shame just her patriarch (as is the case in the instances mentioned in op), but entire family is disgraced 2/
it's not only a matter of the man of the house being disobeyed/"robbed" of his authority, but a matter of EVERYONE in the family losing their social standing - if I impugn my family's honor, my sister is less marriageable, my mother less honorable, even cousins may be affected 3/
it's NOT just that the world will know that he is not a True Man™ capable of controlling his family/charges, it's also that he needs to restore his entire family's social standing so that other family members don't suffer, so that people don't refuse to do business with him, 4/
it's an entire structured system of social control that radiates out further than one singular degree of social relation, very different from the domestic violence most women squarely located in the West experience 5/
it's a fucking shame this equivocation is so horrifyingly common, because y'all very transparently have no idea wtf you're talking about, blindly pretending all women experience patriarchal struggles in exactly the same way to serve a flawed concept of anti-racism, thx bye 6/
like, they call family meetings in my culture to figure out how to "solve" the problem of their disobedient daughter/gay son, it's barely ever just a machismo-driven man getting upset & killing his daughter - it's the whole damn family contriving a way to save their own asses 7/
it's frequently a deliberate and conscious cost-benefit analysis that many members of the family have given input into - they've all collectively decided that you are not worth the disrepute that will likely result in material loss for the entire family - NOT just an angry man 8/
I get it - you think the individualized, nuclear family/societal structure engendered by capitalistic systems in most Western countries is universal - but it's not, and mapping the American nuclear family onto the social structures of other cultures is facile 9/
I understand that most people making this comparison are well-meaning, but stop erasing the very real distinctions between our realities so you can engage in racially savioristic whataboutism 10/
matter of fact, it's sus af about how you NEVER hear white people talk about gendered notions of honor until we start talking about brown communities, and then it's all about how we ~have the same struggle~ 11/
I'm 99% sure too that you see many Muslim women in the US push this notion of American domestic violence being akin to honor violence because the ones with a platform tend to have educated/rich backgrounds, where they're relatively much more isolated from this kind of thing 12/
and we really not gonna talk about how punishments for honor violence in a lot of these countries are the exceedingly rare instance where restorative justice is prescribed? as if honor violence is singularly deserving of it and all other crimes less understandable 13/
not to mention the common situation where a victim is married off to her rapist, not despite the fact that he is her rapist, but specifically BECAUSE he is her rapist (yes, this IS honor violence) - this doesn't happen in the aftermath of Western domestic/sexual violence 14/
glaringly obvious - how about the fact that the family of the victim is commonly considered the true aggrieved party in such cases of honor violence (including #honorkilling), and the victim simply the tool with which they were wounded? 15/
it isn't that honor killings aren't domestic violence (they are), but that honor killings/honor violence are a very specific kind of domestic violence that cannot be equated with all domestic violence without qualification 16/
the difference between honor violence and other forms of domestic violence is that a woman carries her entire family's "honor" on her back, not just her partner's or her father's - her lack of "purity" taints her entire family 17/
