Thread by @LegatumCommuni1

In this radio interview (which lasts for the first 30 minutes of the program) Mak Kapetanovic talks of his journey of being radicalised online as a teenager, how he became deradicalised and how he is seeking to counter white nationalism now. /1

j.mp/2on4t5K

In this thread we will seek to summarise key parts from the interview, which is well worth listening to for anyone seeking to counter extremist beliefs. /2

Kapetanovic is the son of Bosnian refugees and was born in Jacksonville, United States.

He is now 22 and goes to the University of North Florida where he is studying anthropology. /3

At the age of 16 Kapetanovic lost his Mum to a stroke. His school was relatively far from home and he felt incredibly lonely.

He also had in mind no strong community to turn to and he believes this made him succeptible to radicalisation as it does for people worldwide. /4

He is keen to share his story publicly to show how people can be radicalised online very easily in spaces which have become havens for White Nationalist thought. /5

He explained how he first started to see parts of white nationalist thought as acceptable through online gaming sites where racist and misogynist thought was acceptable and ride./6

From gaming sites he then moved on to the online forum 4chan based on his enjoyment of gaming.

The racism and misogyny was much more overt.

From the gaming chatroom of 4chan he moved on to its political chatroom given the name Politically Incorrect. /7

He explains how during his time in the online world of white nationalism, he felt a satisfaction as he thought he was in on secrets of the world which nobody else new.

On top of this due to spending so much time in these online spaces, white nationalist hate was acceptable. /8

In the interview he explains how white nationalist rhetoric is not so much now about stating obviously racist views such as seeing white people superior. /9

Explaining this Kapetanovic highlights how instead now White Nationalists will often talk of how different races will have strengths and weaknesses.

It then goes on to state that white people just happen to have the tools required for society unlike other racists. /10

Although for those not seduced wholly in the white nationalist online world you can see it's another way of saying white people are superior, it's not for those radicalised.

By avoiding buzzwords like supremacy those leading White Nationalist groups seek to hide their racism /11

This explains why in the interview Kapetanovic says he did not see himself as racist. /12

Kapetanovic spent around 3 years as a White Nationalist due to being radicalised online.

He then deradicalised himself in what he calls deprogramming. /13

One of the key reasons for Kapetanovic abandonment of White Nationalist rhetoric was becoming more aware of the world around him and how different it was to the world portrayed by White Nationalists. /14

In the interview he talks about how in his school he had a number of black friends and how in his school and others near 50-60% of pupils were black.

He was unable to convince himself still that his friends were the exception to his White Nationalist worldview. /15

By the time of the shooting of two Mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, Kapetanovic was no longer a White Nationalist, but he had not revealed his story, nor looked to counter White Nationalism based on his own radicalisation.

Christchurch changed all that. /16

He saw how the shooter was radicalised to carry out the violent attack on two Mosques by hateful White Nationalist rhetoric.

What really shook him was that looking at the shooter's 'manifesto' was that he had shared the same beliefs he had. /17

For him it showed how White Nationalism was a growing violent threat and much more needed to be done when it came to the deradicalisation of people online. /18

In the midst of this he told a Muslim friend of his about his story.

This Muslim friend listened compassionately to him.

She also works for NPR and she convinced Kapetanovic to tell his story publicly. /19

After University Kapetanovic is looking to work to reach people who like him are succeptible to extremist views like White Nationalism.

Part of the reason for this is as a lot of radicalisation is online the threat is global and much quicker. /20

When it comes to White Nationalism Kapetanovic speaks of how before the growth of the White Nationalist online space, people had to spend hours spending time with people, seeing what makes them tick etc to radicalise them.

With the internet you don't even have to meet. /21

He speaks of how after University he will work for the Free Radicalisation Project.

This seeks to reach people stuck in a world of hate and racism.

Key to them lesving this world. is the understanding from those who work for the project, as they've been in that world./22

You can find more out about the Free Radicals Project via its website freeradicals.org
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Kapetanovic talks about fears of lack of appropriate resources and funding to combat White Nationalism, particularly deradicalisation.

He compares the many groups to help people with addictions like alcoholism in the U.S. , but hardly any groups to deradicalise people. /24

He also talks in the interview of a lack of knowledge when it comes to the online White Nationalist sphere, for instance on how algorithms on You Tube push some people to a plethora of extreme videos. /25

Kapetanovic background is not one which you would have associated with White Nationalism.

His parents as was previously stated were from Bosnia.

Furthermore, his Dad was held in a Prisoner of War Camp in Bosnia. /26

For Kapetanovic this shows with feelings of dislocation, loneliness and a lack of a strong community are key to radicalisation. /27

Ultimately, Kapetanovic story shows how people can not only leave dark worlds of hate and racism, they can use these experiences to effectively counter extremism and deradicalise.

In the UK good examples of this are Ray Hill and Matthew Collins of @hopenothate. /28

Kapetanovic looks set to be another person who will seek to use his own experience to counter the message of hate which as we've seen can turn violent in White Nationalism. /29.

We hope you have found this thread on Mak Kapetanovic based on his interview of interest and help when it comes to understanding White Nationalism and deradicalisation.

A reminder that you can listen to the full interview here.

news.wjct.org/post/100119-fi…

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