@folcmar It is just as illogical to say that phrases are the proof that Jesus is not God, as I am. Italian requires Esse before sono to make it read as you wish. Without the Esse and from the testimony of Scalfar who is an atheist, it is clear to any Italian that he is playing a word game
@folcmar And as it is believable that Scalfari not only records the words correctly but makes a citation without using a referential pronoun such as Esse (these phrases), the passage can be read both ways. That is an Italian way of sticking you in the ribs and winking the eye.
@folcmar However, your reading makes less sense. Because the Italian can say, These are the proof that. Esse sono la prova.... But when you say, Sono la prova provata, you are saying that the Subject is the proven proof. A proven proof is a demonstration or assertion which is evidenced >
@folcmar But phrases cannot be an evidenced proof. They are an assertion. A proven proof must be the physical or eventual outcome which demonstrates that the assertion is true. Such as, some unbeliever saying the Crucifixion is the proven proof that Jesus was not God. A double entendre.
@folcmar The other reason which argues against your reading is that in Italian, one does not say that a plural subject is the proof, but rather that they are the proofs. Esse sono le prove. The singular predicate used here la prova provata expects a singular subject and verb.
@folcmar The context also of what Scalfari says, He said to me, and then Sono la prova provata. According to Italian grammar the subject of sono must be the nearest word. The bible verses are no where near. Only Me and He are. Thus sono expects I not They.
@folcmar So can Scalfari and Bergoglio both claim that the phrase is said in reference to the verses? Yes. Does Italian grammar support that? It can be construed to do so. However, what does the phrase mean of itself by its grammatical form. It means, I am the proven proof...
@folcmar This kind of word game is just the kind of thing atheists do, who do not believe the phrases of the bible mean or prove anything. That Scalfari publishes this means that it means something to him which is important. He would disagree that the words of the bible prove anything
@folcmar But he definitely would BELIEVE that Bergoglio as pope proves that Jesus is not God. So if we consider the phrase in its personal context, grammatical form agrees with that reason. Still Scalfari can always hide behind an excuse. That is engineered plausible deniability.
@folcmar @threadreaderapp unroll
