The DNC rules not awarding the nomination to the person with the most delegates is not an insult to Bernie or his voters. It's not about him. It's about finding a candidate who can win. Getting the most doesn't make you The Guy. It doesn't mean you're not. You might still be.
If Bernie gets the most votes without getting a majority, it's on him to *become* the consensus candidate if he wants to secure the nomination. That's what we're trying to do.
Berners threatening to stay home are betraying the fear that he's just not interested in doing that.
Berners threatening to stay home are betraying the fear that he's just not interested in doing that.
Will he form necessary coalitions to get the delegates he needs? Will he make compromises to make his platform more palatable to more of the party? Will he calm the establishment Democrats? BECAUSE THEY SUCK BUT YES THAT'S PART OF THE JOB, ASSHOLES.
If Bernie doesn't cinch the nomination and you stay home on election day, you're not being principled and you're not being strategic. You're being petulant. You could show up and vote down ballot to deny Trump support and create a divided government to do less harm for four years
If Bernie can get to the majority then he's the candidate. If he shows up without a majority it is HIS JOB to get the majority and if he can manage that then frankly it will allay a lot of my doubts about him getting things done in office.
"But so many of the DNC and the superdelegates are against him!"
Yes. And if he's president he'll have to work with people who are against him. Establishment people. Entrenched power structures. He'll have to win them over and work with them.
Can he not do that?
Yes. And if he's president he'll have to work with people who are against him. Establishment people. Entrenched power structures. He'll have to win them over and work with them.
Can he not do that?
If the position of the Bernitdown Party is that it's not fair or right to expect Bernie Sanders to be able to get concessions from people who hate his guts then maybe you should vote for somebody qualified to be president, because you just said he can't do the job.
You want us to anoint Bernie Sanders the high king but you think it's unfair to make him pull the sword from the stone. Sorry. No.
If Bernie gets to 50+%, he's in. If he doesn't, he's got to get there.
As of right now? If he does show up with a plurality-but-not-majority, I don't see another outcome that I would prefer to him being the nominee.
But he's got to close the deal. And threats won't do it.
As of right now? If he does show up with a plurality-but-not-majority, I don't see another outcome that I would prefer to him being the nominee.
But he's got to close the deal. And threats won't do it.
If 40% vote for him and 60% don't, it's not "ignoring the will of the people" to say the actual majority have rights that must be honored in choosing the candidate. Jesus. We've had four years of that nonsense from Trump voters.
If we had ranked choice voting we could use that to discover what the majority would prefer in that situation where nobody's first choice is a candidate we can all agree on. We should have ranked choice voting. But we don't.
And it's not anti-Democratic to not automatically override the 60% who didn't vote for him in favor of the 40% who did. Maybe some of those 60% would find him an acceptable compromise. Maybe a lot would. If you're scared to find out, you can't think the odds are good.
People can be excited about their second choices, Bront.
Lord save us from stan thinking. Most of us aren't looking for The Chosen One Who Can Save Us All.
Lord save us from stan thinking. Most of us aren't looking for The Chosen One Who Can Save Us All.
If Bernie has 35 or 40 percent of the delegates and that's the high score but not a majority and we give him the nomination, "then you are awarding the nomination to someone who didn't have a BIG ENOUGH enthusiastic base and how is that good for turnout in November?"
If the convention goes past the first round then there are going to be conversations and explorations and negotiations and the goal, the overall goal, is going to be to try to find the balance between "enthusiastic enough base" and "wide enough appeal" to win.
Yes, there are people with individual agendas in there and some of them are bound to sink Bernie at any cost. Just like some people are bound to boost Bernie at any cost. Politics is messy.
If Bernie walks in with a high plurality, near majority... he's walking in with a lot of leverage, and he stands a good chance of sealing the nomination, or failing that, converting his leverage into concessions.
Petulant, adolescent threats that back people into a corner and make it clear that negotiation is impossible don't help him make his case.
I know, I know. Him making his case isn't something you guys want. You want conquest. Revenge. "Bend the knee."
I know, I know. Him making his case isn't something you guys want. You want conquest. Revenge. "Bend the knee."
If I had as low an opinion of a man's ability to make his case as Bernie Sanders fans apparently have of him, I wouldn't vote for him to be dog catcher. I wouldn't vote for him to be the forsaken child at the heart of Omelas.
Do you guys all know that there's no actual mechanism for a president to make Congress do what he wants? I know it seems there must be, the way the King in Orange rules the GOP, but if President Bernie can't convince Congress to enact his agenda, it goes almost nowhere.
"Well we'll vote them all out if they don't go along with us." Except if you couldn't get to majority support for Bernie in the primary you don't have the numbers to do that and meanwhile a lot of his support evaporates because he's not delivering.
If you Bernie can't actually make his case to the party and become the consensus candidate, and yet he gets rammed through anyway, then even if he wins the general he's going to be a one term wonder with no legacy and the progressive agenda will be dead in the water.
Muting this thread and not checking replies anymore. Not interested in playing games with children. We've got enough minority rule in politics right now. If Bernie can get 50%, I'll applaud his victory. If he's got the high plurality I'll argue for his candidacy.
But if he can't seal the deal and you stay home, you're not a progressive. You're protesting against democracy, not for it. You're not a good person. And I don't believe you were motivated by concern for anybody so much as a desire to rub victory in The Establishment's face.
I am tired, I am sore, I am sick, and I am sick and tired of watching people "advocate for Bernie" like they're stormtroopers. I'm tired of people who can't imagine their guy capturing a majority of the vote thinking they can hold the majority hostage and calling it democracy.
And now I go back to bed.
One more note: all you replying know we're talking about a situation where by definition Bernie does not have the support of a majority of people? Your will is not being "overridden" just because it's not allowed to override everyone else's.
If Trump wins this year and especially if the GOP keeps the Senate and retakes the House, I don't see how we get a real election in 2024. I honestly don't.
But the people who will sit out 2020 if we don't anoint their candidate even over the will of the majority are principle d?
But the people who will sit out 2020 if we don't anoint their candidate even over the will of the majority are principle d?
