Thread by @broadsheet_ie

#DOBvSBP Denis O'Brien's counsel resumed questioning this morning of ex-editor of the Sunday Business Post Ian Kehoe in the High Court.

DOB claims he was defamed in SBP articles on March 15, 2015. SBP deny this.

Articles were about PwC rpt on Ireland's top 22 borrowers in '08

#DOBvSBP Luán Ó Braonáin SC, for DOB, puts to Kehoe that he has given impression the work being done on the PwC report was done with some "secrecy"

IK agrees. Says SBP didn't want it getting out to rival newspapers or Govt/anyone who might seek to injunct publication of articles

#DOBvSBP LOB puts to IK that "no notice" was given to the 22 borrowers named.

IK agrees and also agrees that none of the 22 were asked for comment. He repeats that the SBP didn't want to give the 22 the opportunity to attempt to inject the articles.

#DOBvSBP IK goes on to explain that in respect of the 22 borrowers, the newspaper was giving the "factual position" as outlined in the PwC report.

He adds in respect of Denis O'Brien, the SBP stated that he'd repaid his debts and was one of the best customers of AIB and BOI

#DOBvSBP LOB puts to IK the 22 weren't asked: Are the numbers correct? Do you consider yourself responsible for bankrupting the country?

IK: There's no suggestion in any of the articles these people were responsible for bankrupting the country. It's madness [to suggest they did]

#DOBvSPB LOB puts to IK that a journalist asking a person (about whom they're writing) for a comment is "standard".

IK: Normally, but there are exceptions. I would argue, given gravity of what we were printing... meant it wasn't necessary to call them.

#DOBvSBP LOB suggests the front page of the SBP was "designed to give impression that this was an expose"

IK: It was designed to give what it is: a factual statement. Not an impression, it's about a factual position [the PwC report]

#DOBvSBP LOB raises the use of the word "they" in the strap of the front page which said: "The files they don't want you to see."

IK says the 'they' refers to Government.

LOB puts it to IK that the "they" refers to the 22 men and not the Govt.

IK: I don't agree with you

#DOBvSBP LOB raises a graphic on the front page which lists the names of eight men under a small headline "Top secret"

The eight men named (in this order) are: Sean Quinn, Derek Quinlan, Sean Dunne, Liam Carroll, Sean Mulryan, Denis O'Brien, Johnny Ronan and Ray Grehan

#DOBvSBP LOB puts to IK that the graphic suggests, because of the 'top secret' headline, that these named men "have something they don't want you to see".

IK: That wasn't the suggestion of the headline.

NOTE: The PwC report of 2008 was never published by any Govt since 2008.

#DOBvSBP LOB again: I have to suggest that 'they' meant the 22 men.

IK: I emphatically disagree with you.

#DOBvSBP LOB moves on and raises Nama and how the first tranche of people whose loans went into Nama became known as the "Nama 10".

IK explains to jury there was about €72bn in loans transferred to Nama and about €63bn related to around 170 people.

#DOBvSBP IK compares the number of people (170) to number of people at a wedding. Jury hears Nama bought the loans at approx 50% discount

#DOBvSBP LOB says "the view portrayed to the public was the taxpayer was now on the hook for the balance"

IK: They were on the hook for the balance until they came good

#DOBvSBP LOB lists Nama 10: Liam Carroll, Bernard McNamara, Sean Mulryan, Derek Quinlan, Johnny Ronan, Michael O'Flynn, Joe O'Reilly, Gerry Gannon and Gerry Barrett

Jury hears it was reported that second tranche of Nama loans included that of Sean Dunne and Ray Grehan

#DOBvSBP LOB: Being Nama-ed wasn't considered to be a good thing.

IK: A lot of developers were unhappy, yes.

LOB It was viewed that it reflected bad on them.

IK: I don't know. I've often thought about it. They had little choice. Loans were transferred due to legislation

#DOBvSBP LOB: There was a view they needed to be managed by Nama.

IK: Not every developer who went into Nama was insolvent.

#DOBvSBP LOB: I've said to you it reflected poorly on them [being put into Nama]

IK: I'm not certain if I agree with that. I even remember a programme I did, which wasn't very good, in which some of them explained why it had been a good thing for them

#DOBvSBP LOB: It might have been the case that some of them needed to be micromanaged....they weren't going to be the masters of their own destiny...they needed to be put in a holding pen in Nama.

IK: Good phrase ['holding pen'] I used it myself in a programme

#DOBvSBP LOB suggests IK's use of term "holding pen" was comparing Nama folks to "livestock"

IK says this is wrong. He said he was in the room where ppl whose loans were in Nama had to go. He said it was a little room and when filming, he said it was like a holding pen to camera

#DOBvSBP LOB: You could have said this room is very small. You didn't say that because words matter and convey meaning. LOB puts to IK that he intended to say 'holding pen' and intended to suggest the borrowers were "like livestock"

#DOBvSBP IK: That's the funniest suggestion. If I didnt think it was so funny, I would take it as a serious slur but its really, really funny.

#DOBvSBP LOB: You knew people had a poor view of people who went into Nama and people were angry.

#DOBvSBP IK says the programme was made in Sept 2011. He tells jury the programme can be showed to them "but I don't want you to see it....it's not very good". He says the room was like a small room in which one would wait to see a dentist. Says 'holding pen' was just a phrase

#DOBvSBP LOB: Phrases matter because they convey meaning…is that not your business?

IK: I have to say - I thought you were being funny. Now I think you’e being serious…the suggestion that I was referring to developers as livestock is really, really, unfair.

#DOBvSBP LOB raises another phrase used by IK in his documentary about Nama in the context of a section of the doc dealing with frenzied lending and cost to taxpayer.

The phrase LOB raises is: "Little wonder the public gets a kick when Nama gives developers get a kicking."

#DOBvSBP LOB: That was the feeling towards the Nama developers...that they deserved a kicking.

IK: It wasn't my feeling but it was a feeling out there.

LOB: It was your programme. You wrote it.

IK: I scripted it, yes.

LOB: You are a wordsmith

IK: At times

#DOBvSBP IK tells jury there was an anger at the time among the public over Nama, etc...but he says views change, general public's mood changes...he says one view at a particular time doesn't cement a position for ever more.

#DOBvSBP LOB returns to the front page of the SBP on March 15 2015 and the graphic which contained list of 8 men [see earlier tweet].

Jury hears that 3 of the 8 listed in the graphic went bankrupt while 5 didn't.

#DOBvSBP LOB puts it to IK that Denis O'Brien didn't go bankrupt, didn't cost the State billions and didn't go into Nama.

IK: No, and we never suggested he did those things.

LOB: You put him in the company of people viewed as having done those things.

IK: No. PwC did.

#DOBvSBP LOB says the SBP put Denis O'Brien at number 6 on the graphic list of 8 men.

LOB: If you put in top 8 [overall borrowers], he [Denis O'Brien] wouldn't have been in this list [DOB was 10th out of 22 borrowers]. You thought you'd just lob in who you thought would sell.

#DOBvSBP IK repeats the football/soccer analogy SBP journalist Tom Lyons used previously ...comparing names to football teams in terms of how well known they are.

#DOBvSBP LOB: It's just it doesn't say anything about them other that it's 'top secret'. LOB suggests DOB was put in "veritably bad company" and he [DOB] is not a person who has cost the State anything.

#DOBvSBP IK: I wouldn't consider the names bad company. He was 10th biggest borrower in the State, and identified as such by PwC. There was absolutely no malice in the decision to put those eight names there...I can tell you one thing, I'd happily print this again in the morning

#DOBvSBP LOB asks K about choice of the word "men" on front page headline as opposed to "exposures" or "borrowers".

Jury hears "22 exposures" wouldn't have made a good headline.

IK: 22 exposures could mean lot of things.

LOB: And they’d want to be good to pay €26bn for them

#DOBvSBP IK further tells the jury he's given lectures on the "patriarchy of the bust" and how most of the bankers, regulators, etc were all men.

He said the word 'men' had meaning.

#DOBvSBP LOB says nowhere in the SBP on March 15, 2015 does IK refer to the "thesis" that more women should have been involved.

LOB says there isn't a word about this.

IK: Not in this one, no - but if you go through other newspapers, I've written about it extensively.

#DOBvSBP LOB raises the use of the word "just" in reference to "just 22 men" [borrowed €26bn] .

LOB: You could easily have said "how 22 men" instead.

IK: Even the NTMA was staggered that just 22 people had this exposure.

#DOBvSBP LOB: You said [as in newspaper reported] the top 22 borrowers had €8.8bn exposure in land and development loans/projects.

IK: The number comes from the PwC report

#DOBvSBP LOB: We know Denis O'Brien did not have any amount of that €8.8bn in respect of land and development

IK: Yes...there's others as well...Eight of the 22 didn't.

#DOBvSBP LOB: If you had gone over, and over, and over the articles as you said you did, you would have seen that Denis O'Brien did not have any of that land and development 8.8bn exposure. You would have seen that 14 had the 8.8bn.

#DOBvSBP IK: There was a summary in the report which said top 22 owed 8.8bn in land & development loans.

IK repeats this is how PwC described it - that 22 borrowers had 8.8bn exposure in land and development.

IK says the SBP was "factually correct" as this is what PWC said.

#DOBvSBP LOB: But if you wanted to make it clear and be fair... of the fact that DOB didn’t have that exposure...you’d have left him off the list.

#DOBvSBP LOB asks IK if he [LOB] reported many on jury were willing to accept money nefariously - would that lower the reputation of all of them?

IK says to avoid such a situation, he'd put pen pics of each member of jury and outline where they stood "that would be the fairest"