Thread by @swardley

X : Do you have any thoughts on climate change.
Me : La La La
X : You don't agree with it?
Me : Quite the opposite. I worked in the industry in the 1990s when we had a chance.
X : What should we do?
Me : Apologise to your kids. Beg forgiveness from grandkids.
X : Is that it?

Me : What do you want me to say? Cut C02 omission by 50% by 2020, massively reduce consumption, massive scale planting of trees, redirect all society effort and focus on this problem?
X : Would that fix it?
Me : We're beyond fixing it. We're in damage limitation and recovery.

X : That seems a bit drastic. Isn't there a danger of scaremongering.
Me : Oh dear, that is the exact reason why every environmental report I've seen over the last 20 years has been watered down to wishful thinking.
X : So, what's the solution?
Me : More wishful thinking?

X : Can't you be a bit more useful?
Me : What you're really telling me is -we don't want to face up to the reality of the problem can't we find another way i.e. surely there's some wishful thinking that will work? This is the heart of the problem.
X : Ok, so what's the solution?

Me : I told you, but you don't want to hear.
X : That's not realistic. We need something the economy can support.
Me : Try that.
X : What?
Me : Try saying that to the climate ... "look here climate, you're being perfectly unreasonable and threatening our economy"

X: Now, you're talking nonsense.
Me : Funny, I was thinking the same.
X : This is getting us nowhere.
Me : I know. We knew back in 1990s. People wouldn't pay attention until impacts were blindingly obvious.
X : And then what do we do?
Me : Fingers crossed for wishful thinking.

X : There are many alternatives, we could colonise Mars for example or go into space.
Me : Oh. Even if we could, you don't expect to be on one of those spaceships do you? I think you're a few hundred million short of a ticket. Still, Bezos is spot on about shifting production.

X : Ah there are other solutions?
Me : Legislate all production is to be owned by Amazon and Alibaba. Nationalise them globally. Force all production into space. It won't fix the problem but it's a start.
X : That's mad.
Me : I don't think you understand the scale of the problem.

X : I'm aware.
Me : Well, you're definitely forgetting the constraints.
X : What constraints?
Me : Economic models, personal fortunes are ten a penny. They come and go in history. Habitable climates are ... well, there has only ever been one. That's it.

Which is how you need to think about the problem. Our current economy is gnat's fart compared to the future value of a habitable climate. Any and all Gov action is justified in protection of this including any form of wealth tax, nationalisation, limitation of rights etc.

X : That's a bit dystopian.
Me : Expected "life supporting" capacity of Earth is around 1.75 billion years. The global economy today is $80 trillion p.a. Any future global economy greater than $45,700 p.a. (i.e. less than one US household) justifies immediate action to save it.

i.e. spending the entire global economy for the next three decades on tackling climate change is perfectly reasonable as long as the future is more than 30 US households . So, yes ... any and all action necessary is justified.

Thanks to @ReversingWithMe for this - ... I'm definitely not the best person to discuss climate change with, having worked in the industry back in the 90s.

X : Do you not think that "limitation of rights" could lead to some form of tyranny?
Me : It's a horrible situation to be in but our blind faith in the market system has led us to borrow extensively from the future creating a condition where that future is no longer certain ...

... we have ignored our duty to be a custodian for the future, to leave the world in a better condition than we find it. In fact, we have lumbered the future with our excessive debt, we have spent and consumed what is not ours labelling it all as "externalities".

And we all share responsibility, we have allowed Governments to pander to our excesses and ignored the consequences. It is no different to the behaviour I saw in the financial markets prior to the crash. Everyone knew it was coming, everyone was hoping for a few more bonuses.

In this case, we're playing with the one asset (our inhabitable environment) that there is no alternative to. If it's broken, there is no replacement. There is no bailout option where the problem can be punted around.

X : Ice-making submarine would pop out bergs to help fight climate change - nbcnews.com/mach/science/i…
Me : Oh dear. I love the “What are you going to do, put out a flotilla of 10,000 submarines?” quote. I'm not sure people understand the scale.

... I'm the worst person in the world to talk about this stuff. I worked in the environmental field in the 90s. Quit in disgust, I didn't have the stomach for it. I'm truly amazed by friends who have stuck it out, it must be incredibly depressing to be ignored for so long ...

... I know it is for some. To know what you know. To have to keep on telling people, year in, year out about how serious this is and be accused of scaremongering, not being realistic etc. To water down reports to make them more acceptable in the hope of leaking more details.

X : But what if we could produce enough submarines?
Me : Oh help me. Well, there's the number, energy cost of materials to build them, energy cost of operating these heat exchanges and desalination and the issue of the energy excess caused by running it ...

i.e. the back of the fridge is warm, ever wondered why? The clue is in the term "heat exchanger". Anyway, even if you did magically fix all that ... you still have the issue that you're not actually solving the problem of more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

What you need to truly grasp is that melting glaciers and changing weather patterns are the symptom not the cause.

Anyway, thanks to @ReversingWithMe for this - ... I'm definitely not the best person to discuss climate change with.

X : Isn't this defeatist?
Me : I've taken a long interest in this subject, hence I generate much of my own power. However, there's little point in discussion if people aren't going to get "real" about this and I'm far from convinced that people are ready yet.