Thread by @Haki_na_Sheria

The afternoon session of the #NIIMS hearing has started - follow us for live updates on this hearing on your #HudumaNamba

The government expert witness Mr Omwenga is re-taking the stand for re-examination by the respondent. Counsel for 2nd & 3rd petitioner begins with questions

"Was your blood sample taken when you registered for #HudumaNamba?" - "no it was not"

Asked about centralized and decentralized systems, Mr Omwenga says that the heart of a centralized system is in one place and the nodes are located in different locations.

Operationally most systems offering a service are centralized, he says, citing gmail

On which system offers better security, the expert witness claims a centralized system is easier to secure

"A probabilistic system bases its result on likelihood, whereas a deterministic system bases a result on certainty"

On the difference between identity and identification, he says "identity are the characteristics that make up an individual and are domiciled within the individual and identity is the process of a third party establishing identity"

On the difference between identity and identification, Mr Omwenga said he echoed the words of @iam_anandv who testified for the petitioners. He says that #NIIMS provides both identity and identification "identity assists in the process of identification"

@iam_anandv Asked about whether it is advisable to share the architecture and design of the #NIIMS system, Mr Omwenga says that it is advisable to keep "some of it" secret for security

@iam_anandv "The principles are not in themselves the architecture, are they?" - "Not really; the architecture. You base yourself off the principles"

@iam_anandv "So the principles should be made public, not the architecture?" - "I would say that would be good. That is fair"

@iam_anandv Based on his advice, Mr Omwenga thinks that #NIIMS would currently offer enough security.

He adds that the document on principles and recommendations was not developed by him but is a group action research

@iam_anandv Mr Omwenga says his recommendations to the #GOK on #NIIMS principles were a collaborative effort

@iam_anandv Regarding his government consultancies, Mr Omwenga estimates that he has had four.

Regarding his work with Jubilee during the IEBC trial, he was first and foremost a consultant on tech and IT

@iam_anandv "You were asked whether you have written any academic or professional paper on #NIIMS" - "I would say that this is far fetched because it's actually not a system that has been established and operationalized"

@iam_anandv "You were asked what is going on with the data that was collected. Do you know what is going on with that data?" - "At this point no"

#NIIMS #HudumaNamba #WhereIsMyData

@iam_anandv "the reason why you want to do deduplication is because there is a possibility that some of the data that was captured is dublicate or needs to be cleaned"

@iam_anandv "Are you aware of who wrote the software of #NIIMS?" - "I have absolutely no idea"

@iam_anandv Asked whether the combination of biometric and biographic data is deterministic, Mr Omwenga says that the end-goal is a very precise identity and you want to use a parameter of uniqueness

@iam_anandv If you get yourself in a position where you have a parameter that is unique, you can have a deterministic system - he gives the example of ID numbers in #Kenya which would be used to determine identity in #NIIMS

@iam_anandv Another way to get a more deterministic system would be "to get more data points"

@iam_anandv Regarding the linking of data, Mr Omwenga says that the government has been interested in blockchains: "I think based on the advice they were given it is something they wanted to look a little deeper into"

@iam_anandv On his advice to the government, he says "my belief is that they are actually listening"

@iam_anandv "how would you resolve the risk of breaches in #NIIMS?" - "Ideally you would set up several tech implementations in terms of security"; he adds that you would have to do this continuously because hackers keep evolving

@iam_anandv "Is it possible to eliminate the risk of intrusion?" - "No system is completely secure. I would actually like to echo the words of the petitioner's witness @iam_anandv that if you want to keep a system entirely secure, you should not switch it on"

@iam_anandv "Is it possible to re-design a system that is already deployed, like #NIIMS?" - "My answer is yes"

@iam_anandv "in the morning you were asked whether you have interacted with data protection in your field" - "yes, I have implemented and advised on it" and he adds examples on financial data

@iam_anandv "We have heard you say that you didn't build #NIIMS but would you say that the project guarantees the security and integrity of the data?" - "Based on the advice I have given them; the implementation of such advice gives fairly good system security"

@iam_anandv "You made several recommendations on how the system should be build. Are you aware if these were implemented?" - "I do not have reason to believe they were not implemented. I can tell the government seriously takes into account recommendations by experts"

@iam_anandv "As a consultant serving in an advisory role, do you have an obligation to ensure that your recommendations are implemented?" - "I would say no"

@iam_anandv Mr Omwenga is asked whether he was involved in the development of the #NIIMS data capture form. He states that he was not and does not know the concerns that were taken into consideration in development of the form

@iam_anandv "As an expert are you satisfied that the #NIIMS project has sufficient safeguards for the data that is collected?" - "I would say yes. The advice that I have provided is the best in terms of the security of such systems and if implemented [they] would be secure"

@iam_anandv Counsel concludes his cross-examination and Mr Regeru, the lawyer for the 1st respondent takes over cross-examination

@iam_anandv He asks whether implementation of the recommendations fell into the remit of the witness, who responds that implementation is up to the government

@iam_anandv "Is there anything wrong in your view with being paid for professional services rendered to government?" - Mr Omwenga believes it is appropriate

@iam_anandv "Are you beholden to the government for any reason?" - "currently no"

@iam_anandv Asked about the distinction between the administrator and the designer of the #NIIMS system, Mr Omwenga says it is an "owner/artisan" relationship. The administrator runs it and the designer puts the system together

@iam_anandv Would the Minister of the Interior have quite a different role from the person who build the system? - Yes but at the level of design, he can give leads on what he needs the system to do

@iam_anandv Asked about the legal and policy framework around data protection, Mr Omwenga states that when he recommended the consolidation of identification of people this was likely something the government had already considered before

@iam_anandv Asked about cost/benefits, Mr Omwenga offers up some benefits of a "single source of truth": streamlining government; economic benefit of consolidating different cards; no need for voter registration "if it is done well"

@iam_anandv Mr Omwenga says that #NIIMS would have savings to the government

@iam_anandv Asked about the #NIIMS data capture form, Mr Omwenga confirms that DNA and GPS were not captured

@iam_anandv On the definition of biometrics, Mr Omwenga is asked whether it is important that the definition includes "in digital form" - "in digital form it becomes a lot easier to process"

@iam_anandv Mr Omwengs is asked whether his report & recommendations to #GOK is specifically a #NIIMS report. He says it is not

@iam_anandv Respondent states that really it was a feasibility study undertaken by a group of people

@iam_anandv "Every page of your report says at the bottom draft report for discussion only....was it discussed?" - "Yes it was" - "Do you know if it was adopted formerly by the government?" - "No. I would assume that they read it and took the advice"

@iam_anandv Mr Omwenga confirms that he would not know about the adoption of his report

@iam_anandv Asked about the GDPR, Mr Omwenga says it would be relevant to adopt rules specific to the Kenyan context: "we can not equate one for one in systems in different countries"

@iam_anandv "We need to develop a system customized to our own needs"

@iam_anandv Questioned about the alleged deficiencies in relation to data, Respondent asks whether these have only come up when #NIIMS began - "not at all"

@iam_anandv "Can you confidently speak to whether sufficient or too much data is collected?" Mr Omwenga says he cannot and that he does not have the authority to speak for government

@iam_anandv Respndent begins a line of questioning regarding @iam_anandv's testimony. Petitioner objects as they did not cross on Anand's testimony.

The court says that the respondent has leeway to refer to new evidence given by Anand but only that

@iam_anandv "Do you believe that you and your colleagues are at the very cutting age of technology?" - Omwenga says that they are and cites the recent census developed by a local organization

@iam_anandv Respondent is seeking comment on @iam_anandv's 5 concerns on #NIIMS: 1) purpose-free - "that is far-fetched" he says and adds that the system is meant to achieve a single source of truth"

@iam_anandv Respondent is seeking comment on @iam_anandv's 5 concerns on #NIIMS: 2) design and extensive questions on data capture form - "the government has good reasons. For example for reasons of deduplication"

@iam_anandv "Would there be anything wrong with a form that asked about something such as landholdings?" - "That would really depend on the form and the reasons for it"

@iam_anandv Respondent is seeking comment on @iam_anandv's 5 concerns on #NIIMS: 3) Exclusion by design - "You don't necessarily get excluded if you don't have fingerprints". Mr Omwenga says that Anand focused very heavily on the fallibility of biometrics

@iam_anandv On people who would not want to be registered, Mr Omwenga thinks this is "exclusion by choice" giving Google and Facebook as examples

@iam_anandv Respondent is seeking comment on @iam_anandv's 5 concerns on #NIIMS: 4) surveillance - Mr Omwenga says that mass surveillance is a stretch and that logs are kept for audits and certain functions of government that require surveillance

@iam_anandv Respondent is seeking comment on @iam_anandv's 5 concerns on #NIIMS: 5) breach - Mr Omwenga says that policies and systems are developed to keep the systems secure and that total security is a myth

@iam_anandv Mr Omwenga is comforted regarding system security by the fact that #GOK is looking at issues such as blockchain and artificial intelligence

@iam_anandv "The world is moving into a digital revolution and if we are not involved, we will miss out"

Mr Regeru concludes his re-examination

The Court has some questions

@iam_anandv The Court asks about the distinction between a centralized and de-centralized system - "I would say that Kibicho's perspective of centralization of the system is in its operation. The actual technical implementation of the system can take any form"

@iam_anandv Mr Omwenga has concluded his testimony

The Respondent calls the second expert witness Edward Muchemi

@iam_anandv Counsel for the 2nd & 3rd respondent is introducing the witness and giving background on his expertise

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike is now cross-examining the witness in relation to his professional background

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike The witness is the chairman of the Presidential Digital Talent Programme which sits under the Ministry of ICT. Waikwa asks whether PDTP as an agency of the Ministry of ICT - "PDTP is an initiative under the Ministry of ICT"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Waikwa is questioning Mr Muchemi on his connections to the government, including an MBS award granted by the President and positions he was appointed to by the Ministry of ICT

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Mr Muchemi says the last time he worked as a consultant for #GOK was when he wrote the swot analysis on #NIIMS

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike swot is the document on strengths and weaknesses of #NIIMS found in Jerome Ochieng's affidavit

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "It's fair to say that your last interaction with anything relating to #NIIMS was December 2017?" - "I registered for #HudumaNamba but that was the last thing I did [with #GOK on this]"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike The witness can't comment on whether you need to go to a point to be authenticated if you require a service under #NIIMS

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "Can you comment on whether #NIIMS is centralized or decentralized?" - "Yes" - "and in that respect, would you say it is centralized or decentralized?" - "to my knowledge it is centralized"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike The witness draws knowledge on #NIIMS being centralized from recommendations of his report

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Waikwa is now asking Mr Muchemi about the definition of metadata - he agrees that metadata is the same concept as data logs

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "Would you agree that for a centralized system like #NIIMS to work, you will leave a trail of logs?" - "I don't know cause I don't know how it works"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Waikwa is asking the expert witness about how his recommendations on #NIIMS compare to the identity system in Estonia, where children are issued with a unique identifier at birth.

The witness confirms that this is what he was recommending

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "You would agree that an objective of this report was to discuss the concept of universal birth registration?" - "It was an objective, yes". The witness also agrees that a unique identifier at birth would be a fairly good mode of identification

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "Is #GOK giving a unique number during birth registration that works the way the Estonian number does?" - "conceptually it is supposed to work like that"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike The witness agrees that with giving a child a unique identifier at birth, you have credibly identified that child and that this would allow the government to determine when someone is 18

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "Is it reasonable that at birth citizenship of the child should be identified?" - "It would be reasonable"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Waikwa is pointing the witness to the statements in his affidavit that distorted biometrics are possible but highly unlikely

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "would it be fair to say that if you are relying on fingerprints, it is possible that there would be people who would not be able to provide fingerprints?" - The witness struggles to answer and lands on "yes you would be able to provide"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Waikwa is questioning the witness on the fact that he has not attached any studies in relation to fingerprints to his affidavit and that he is not an expert on fingerprints

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "If I were to ask you to prove to the court that you are Kenyan, how would you prove this?" - "with my ID card" - "If I gave you more time, what docs do you think you would produce?" - "Birth certificate or passport"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Waikwa establishes that the witness was not aware that birth certificates in #Kenya do actually not confer citizenship

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "Do you know how #NIIMS will work to determine identity in relation to the data that has been collected?" - "No I don't know"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "Are you aware that #GOK has stated that you do not require an ID or passport to register for #HudumaNamba?" - "I am not able to answer that"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Waikwa asks the witness about his experience with deduplication

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike If there were two Muchemi Edwards in the system, is the system able to differentiate between you two if the only thing you are filtering are the names? - No

If we added an address, the system would be able to desegregate? - Yes

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "Would you agree with me that if someone registered without an ID or passport, the system would not be able to determine if they are a citizen?" - "I wouldn't know that"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike Waikwa is now asking the witness about children's rights

"If I put it to you that in registering for #NIIMS there are children that might not be registered or not given the proper identity, would you consider that fair?" - I don't understand the question"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike "Do you think there is an acceptable percentage of children that could be excluded from #NIIMS?" - "I can't comment"

When pushed further, the witness states that the system should be as inclusive as possible

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike The petitioners have concluded their cross-examination.

The Respondent begins re-examination

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike The Respondent asks about the support of @UNICEF in creating the #NIIMS swot report

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF "Every child has the right to an identity" - "that is correct"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF Respondent and witness are now speaking to the need for unique identifiers for children

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF The witness suggests that #NIIMS offers solutions to existing weaknesses in registration

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF Respondent establishes that Mr Muchemi was ranked in the top 1% performers in PWC

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF He is establishing further witness accolades

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF "Have you in any way been involved in the design or implementation of #NIIMS?" - "No I haven't"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF "What is your position on #NIIMS being centralized or decentralized?" - "The biodata information is centralized, however government institutions use the information in a decentralized manner"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF The witness is now comparing the Estonian central population register with the centralized #NIIMS system (not mentioning that unlike NIIMS, Estonia does not collect biometric information in the central system)

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF The first respondent is now questioning the witness on the PDTP initiative and suggests that he is not in any way beholden to government

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF "When you talk about harmonizing fragmented citizen identity data in Kenya" - "...the idea was to collect as much information as we can centrally and have the functional departments use the data"

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF After questioning the witness on the data capture form, the respondents conclude their re-examinaton.

Mr Muchemi is done giving evidence

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF The remaining government witnesses are to testify next week

@iam_anandv @waikwawanyoike @UNICEF The Court is adjourned until 2nd of October