Thread by @nkellyatJG

Attorney General Curtis Hill back on the stand.

He gave some background on his profession etc. Now we are on to Sine Die day - March 14. He worked out at his apartment complex in Indianapolis.

He is going over a bill related to his office budget that he was working on that day.

Around 8:30 p.m. he walked out to get something to eat. Stopped at Capital Grill and saw Tony Samuel and others.

Hill's attorney Donald Lundberg is questioning Hill. He asks what he was wearing.

Hill says he took his tie off at some point, unbuttoning the top two buttons. Said he had a t-shirt on underneath.

Hill says Samuel's group was raving over a lamb chop appetizer so ordered some. Also had a glass of wine.

Group left Capital Grill and went to 1933 Lounge above St. Elmo. Ran into more people and invited them too.

Hill says he had never attended sine die before.

Hill described AJ's as a little neighborhood bar with a party environment. Gave him a sense of New Year's Eve or election night party after your party wins.

Hill had a $15 million legislative defeat earlier in the evening related to a bill. But he says he was still in a decent mood.

Hill is loose and conversational on the stand, relaxed body language.

He says he mingled around, ordered a vodka martini.

Hill says as the evening wore on the crowd grew; noise got louder; energy in the room grew.

Hill says he sometimes has trouble hearing in both ears but his left ear in particular.

Hill said he had a few substantive conversations but also met a lot of new people briefly with just intros and greetings.

Contrary to public persona Hill says "I'm a fun guy."

Hill says he was at bar area and there was a group of people trying to get a drink. He noticed Sen. Greg Taylor bartending - made a statement that 'if you want to get this guy's attention you have to show some leg.'

I meant that as a joke. It wasn't directed at any person.

Hill says from his generation a similar line in a movie during a hitchhiking scene.

A defense witness yesterday used almost that exact example.

Lundberg asks if people of a younger generation wouldn't have caught reference to that Clark Gable movie. Hill says absolutely.

Hill says "I don't drink much and when I do drink I don't drink fast." He said he nursed the vodka martini for most of the night.

He took a Fireball shot and said he sipped from it for awhile.

Hill says he didn't shoot the Fireball all in one gulp. Also had water throughout the evening.

He says he wasn't intoxicated but alcohol played a part in his relaxed attitude.

Hill says he is a rare drinker - usually limited to one or two.

He says he knows Rep. Mara Candelaria Reardon as a member of the legislature; been to a few events with her.

Hill says he ran into Reardon in the bar; said hello. She started to speak and I leaned in to her and put my hand around her back to brace myself as I was leaning in.

Hill said he was surprised there wasn't fabric; not sure exactly how low his hand went.

He then removed his hand and when she turned he saw the backless dress. "I said oh, you've got a backless dress. Is this a dress you wear for your performances?"

*at charity event.

Hill says dress looked like it was for a formal event and Reardon does a ballroom act at Hoosier Idol.

He had no indication from the front that her dress was backless.

He said the back of the dress actually dipped below the waist.

"It would certainly show the upper region of that area" - the buttocks.

Hill says it was very close to the crack of the buttocks.

I was startled when I hand my hand on her back and I felt skin, Hill says.

Did your hand linger on her back - no. He says it was a matter of seconds.

Reardon testified that he "grabbed a handful of ass."

Hill said that means a person squeezing with intent on purpose. Did you do that? Absolutely not.

"My hand was on her skin above her buttocks," Hill says.

Hill denies having a second interaction of any kind with Reardon.

She testified he touched her again and said "that skin, that back."

Hill says his hand was never underneath or under her dress. Reardon said his thumb was under the fabric.

*This is such a weird discussion to be having in this ornate, historic room.

Hill says he did not hear Reardon say "what the fuck" or "back off."

He says Reardon didn't expression any anger of hostility toward him.

Moving on to Samantha Lozano, a second accuser.

In case anyone didn't know, Curtis Hall impersonates Elvis Presley. Here's a pic with Rep. Bruce Borders.

Lundberg is asking about a picture he took with Lozano at Hoosier Idol in 2017. Hill's right arm is around her. Her left arm is around her.

The pic.

Now up to the Sine Die party.

Hill says he stepped to his left to open up a spot at the bar and guide people to the spot to get a drink. He believes that's what he did with Lozano.

He says she told him about going to college with his daughter at Hoosier Idol - not at the Sine Die Party.

Now on to Niki DaSilva - said he met her through her boss Sen. Mishler in his office.

Mishler reintroduced her to Hill. Later on she came to the bar. He "believes" that DaSilva is one of the women he helped guide to the bar area.

Hill says he did not touch her butt.

DaSilva said she tried to nudge his hand away and he held both of their hands and moved them down to her butt.

Hill said he touched people's backs throughout the night - men and women.

Now to last accuser - Gabrielle McLemore Brock. He doesn't remember meeting her at the party.

She testified he put her hand on her back and rubbed it for a few minutes.

Hill said he didn't touch any woman that night in a sexual manner.

Hill says to do so in a sexual manner would be to touch an area of the body that is usually off limits or that doing it in such a way to arouse.

He doesn't consider a person's back to be intimate area.

Hill says he didn't touch any woman - or man - in a sensual or intimate manner.

He says contact was incidental.

"I rubbed no one's back at AJ's for a few minutes," Hill says.

Hill does remember dancing with a lobbyist.

Says there was Elvis-type music and he danced like Elvis - including the hips. For a few minutes.

Says nothing was brought to his attention at the Sine Die Party regarding his behavior.

"Some folks who just took $15 million" is how Hill responds to whether there were other elected officials in the room.

He is referring to budgeteers slashing his budget.

Hill left a few hours later - around 3 a.m. - with Nemeth and Samuel.

The next day he went to office and gave a speech in Greenfield. That afternoon returned to Elkhart.

Were you hungover? No - I was tired.

During this quick break I successfully had my pension paperwork notarized. Thanks to @somebrunette!

@somebrunette We are back.

@somebrunette The commission has alleged Hill committed sexual battery and/or battery. The burden of proof is clear and convincing evidence - NOT beyond a reasonable doubt.

@somebrunette Statute for sexual battery:

(a) A person who, with intent to arouse or satisfy the person's own sexual desires or the sexual desires of another person:
(1) touches another person when that person is:
(A) compelled to submit to the touching by force or imminent threat of force;

@somebrunette or

(B) so mentally disabled or deficient that consent to the touching cannot be given;  or

(2) touches another person's genitals, pubic area, buttocks, or female breast when that person is unaware that the touching is occurring;

commits sexual battery, a Level 6 felony.

@somebrunette Regular battery is when "a person who knowingly or intentionally:

(1) touches another person in a rude, insolent, or angry manner; or

(2) in a rude, insolent, or angry manner places any bodily fluid or waste on another person;

commits battery, a Class B misdemeanor.

@somebrunette Hill says his Chief of Staff Joan Blackwell talked with him about the Sine Die party within days.

@somebrunette She said someone was complaining about his "show some leg" comment. Hill said he said something like that but it was a joke. And said he put his hand on a lot of people's backs but nothing inappropriate.

@somebrunette Blackwell asked if he danced with a legislator. He said no because he danced with a lobbyist.

@somebrunette Hill thought it was typical Statehouse rumor mill and "didn't rise to the level of further engagement."

@somebrunette The next time Sine Die came to his attention was June 29 during conference call with Speaker Brian Bosma and then-President Pro Tem David Long.

@somebrunette Said it was an unusual request that they wanted to speak with him out of session.

@somebrunette Bosma said they had conducted an investigation based upon complaints about his behavior at the party.

I was in shock because I had no idea what they were talking about.

@somebrunette Bosma said the complaints were Hill was intoxicated, made inappropriate comments and touched several women.

@somebrunette Hill said he had more to drink than he normally would and asked who the people were. Gave them instructions from the Taft report that he was not to attend events, see their employees etc.

@somebrunette Hill asked how he can comply if he doesn't know who they are. Asked for context on the touches and there was no more info.

Asked if they had spoken to Tony Samuel - who he was with that night. No.

@somebrunette They then informed me the Indianapolis Star had information on conduct and asked them for a comment.

Bosma and Long wanted to inform Hill before they talked to the newspaper.

@somebrunette I was left somewhat unsatisfied by the information I received. Said I was troubled by the allegations. Wanted to know more about the nature of allegations.

@somebrunette They agreed to meet again on Monday July 2. Before the call ended Bosma said he was going to meet with the women and asked if he could convey anything on Hill's behalf.

To the extent I did or said anything to make someone feel uncomfortable I apologize.

@somebrunette Hill said general nature of testimony from Long and Bosma on the call was accurate. One thing was Bosma did not say anything about going underneath a dress or a backless dress or anything like that.

@somebrunette "I was shocked. I was troubled. Apparently there were...women out there who believed or perceived that I had done something inappropriate," Hill says.

@somebrunette Hill said he recognized the "show some leg" comment but had no idea about the touches that were alleged.

"I was concerned and really in desperate need to find out what had happened," he said.

@somebrunette Hill notes two versions of apology during call - one to the leaders that they were wrapped up in it. And then one to the women - to the extent you offended anyone, sorry.

@somebrunette Now onto the July 2nd meeting with Bosma, Long, Lanane, Goodin and some staffers.

@somebrunette Met in the Speaker's Office. Bosma handed a press release they were sending to the Indianapolis Star on their position. Had done investigation involving allegations against Hill; situation complete and accusers were satisfied.

@somebrunette Bosma said "the situation has gone from bad to worse." Said the confidential memo has been leaked. Hill said what memo?

Explained confidential memo from law firm hired including detailed allegations. They refused to give the memo to him.

@somebrunette Hill said confidentiality made no sense after it had been leaked.

"My attitude in the meeting started to change," he said.

@somebrunette Bosma said it was leaked by "one of the four of us" or one of their staffers.

@somebrunette Hill said he was becoming more suspicious. "I was concerned this was now becoming a political attack."

@somebrunette Hill questioned the investigatory authority of the legislator. Asked why not turned over to local prosecutor or inspector general. He says all four leaders said, "this isn't criminal."

@somebrunette Bosma mentions the backless dress and Hill realized he was talking about Reardon.

@somebrunette Bosma also said they were going to investigate the leak.

Hill also notes the Taft law firm didn't investigate. Legislative staffers investigated then Taft gave legal opinion on that.

@somebrunette "I was unable to see the report and I was getting agitated," Hill said.

Once something gets in the public you can't put that back in the barn. He said he was not interviewed. It was all one-sided with no context.

@somebrunette Hill had not been contacted by the Indianapolis Star until July 2.

@somebrunette Hill says he now knows who leaked the memo - from a House Democrat communications employee.

Hill says he knows the name but not included the name in the record of this hearing.

@somebrunette Hill says Bosma testified yesterday he does not know who leaked the memo.

And Bosma said yesterday "all the staff in the House are employed by me."

@somebrunette *A note from me - no one has been disciplined for the leak.

@somebrunette Hill says it appears the issue was becoming more about bad process than what actually happened at the bar. He first saw the Taft report when the Star put it online.

@somebrunette "It was a heart-sinking moment," Hill says. He said the general public will just assume it's true but the document was void of form and substance.

@somebrunette Hill said the women's names were redacted but his was not.

@somebrunette Hill says Taft report was not accurate depiction of what happened that night.

Example - memo refers to Rep. Reardon saying I took both hands and put both down her back and the dress and squeezing a handful of ass. And then again.

Even Reardon conceded there were inaccuracies.

@somebrunette Lundberg asks if anyone has come to Hill and said "we're sorry" for the fact the Taft report got out.

He says no.

@somebrunette "I was gonna fight," he said - since he wasn't getting a fair opportunity to be heard.

@somebrunette *A note - dozens of reporters asked for his side. He refused to give it.

@somebrunette Lundberg says Taft report at best was an analysis based on someone else's investigation. Hill agrees.

@somebrunette Hill says governor and others called for his resignation. Gov. Eric Holcomb also called for an Inspector General investigation.

Hill questioned it. IG applied for a special prosecutor to review the case.

@somebrunette Dan Sigler, a veteran prosecutor from Adams County, was appointed.

@somebrunette Hill calls Sigler top-rate.

Sigler found there was insufficient evidence to charge Hill with a crime.

@somebrunette TBT - A year ago yesterday Sigler released his report.

@somebrunette Lundberg wants the report just for Sigler's conclusion - not the hearsay involved.

Commission Attorney Seth Pruden said opinion of one person is inadmissible and irrelevant. Invades province of hearing officer and Supreme Court.

@somebrunette Pruden says there is longtime precedent on the matter.

*In layman's terms - just because one prosecutor didn't choose to go forward with criminal charges doesn't mean Hill is innocent.

@somebrunette Lundberg says Hill should be able to make a record to support their argument - deference to criminal justice system is appropriate.

@somebrunette Selby decides it's lunch time because microphones need batteries and she will rule later. Only witness today is Hill.

See you at 1 p.m.

@somebrunette By the way, we got access to 100 plus documents/emails etc this morning. Haven't had time to review yet.

I did find one that referenced initial drafts of a press release defending Hill. It was from a campaign aide that said to "lose the word lynching" and any defense of Reardon

Per Reardon - it "simply sets her up to punch us in the nose a=ain." (sic)

Selby sustains objection to Sigler's report. So it will not be in the record for Selby to review.

Back to Hill. Recalling Samantha Lozano's testimony that she said it was hot in the bar and Hill responded, "yes you're hot."

Hill denies saying that.

Hill now being asked about Kathleen Bowers testimony. She was an employee under Hill in Elkhart who alleges Hill propositioned her for sex in December 2016.

Hill says he had some but not a lot of interaction with Bowers. Talking about celebrity dance events he has done - including one with her in 2015.

He was surprised how good she was in the performance. A few times he spoke with her in the office about dance and indicated she would have been a great partner.

Hill says he and his wife had talked about dance lessons so he contacted Bowers.

Hill said he used the word "hot" in the sense of performance, such as a sizzling or exciting performance.

Hill says he did not have an affair or sex with her.

*Note - no one said he did.

Hill recalls interacting with her in December 2016. Went to her office. This was between his election as AG in November and when he was sworn in January 2017. He was elected Elkhart Prosecutor.

He said they again talked about dance lessons.

Denies they were talking about sex, rather than dance.

Hill denies saying "we should fuck because it would be hot."

"Never," he says.

Hill says he did use the words "fuck" and "hot" while talking with her. But said not a proposition for sex or affair.

"Never on any day did I use those words or any words to suggest I wanted to have sex with her," Hill says.

Hill says he said "we could've been fucking hot" in reference to the prior dance competition.

Hill says the four women have sued him civilly and they want money.

Hill says he was in a good mood at the Sine Die Party.

"I touched no one in a rude manner."
"I touched no one in an insolent manner."
"I touched no one at AJ's in an angry manner."

Says it wasn't his intention to be rude to anyone.

See my definition of battery earlier in the thread for the reason he is using that exact language.

Hill says he can't help how someone perceives things.

Now onto the sexual battery statute - which relates to Niki DaSilva.

Absolutely not, he says when asked if he touched her to arouse or satisfy his sexual desires.

Did you use force? Absolutely not.

Hill admits apologizing "to the extent" any women felt he acted wrongly. Said at that time he didn't know the full allegations.

Hill said he did not know who his accusers were so he couldn't tell them directly. Also he was instructed by legislative leaders not to approach them because it would be considered retaliation.

Now moving to cross-examination.

What is a tort claim notice?

A - a notice of tort claim, Hill says.

*This is required to be filed before anyone can sue a government.

Seth Pruden is handling questions. He concedes he is going to jump a bit all over.

Anything inappropriate for someone who has offered a loss to seek damages?

Hill - I don't think so.

Pruden is asking about civil case and EEOC claims. Hill is giving him nothing to work with.

I feel like I'm watching a chess match.

Pruden is asking about statement Hill gave to Special Prosecutor. Videotaped in Attorney Jim Voyles' office.

"I was not under oath but I was telling the truth," Hill says.

Hill says he gave a narrative of his story. No cross examination during taped statement.

In that statement he said he specifically quotes with Bosma and Long the battery statutes.

Pruden is trying to pull apart Hill's testimony a bit. So far I'm not totally following the points he is trying to make. Also we don't have this exhibit they are referring to so...

Pruden - is touching someone on the butt not a rude act?

Hill - depends on context.

Pruden - if without consent is that not rude?

Hill - depends on context.

Hill gives an example when it wouldn't be rude - changing a diaper of a child.

Pruden - are we talking about poopy diapers or touching women at a bar?

Hill says the law requires conduct be done with a particular intention. That's the law.

This seems tedious but remember that the Indiana Supreme Court justices will parse the technicalities of the law - not generalizations.

Pruden recalls that Gabrielle Brock was upset and crying about her interaction with Hill.

Hill says he may have touched her while talking but didn't rub her back.

Pruden asks if two people rub their hands up and down on Hill's back and one intends it rude and one in a jovial way but the touches are the same how is the person being rubbed going to know the difference?

Pruden asking Hill if the intent is of the toucher or how the touchee felt.

Lundberg objects to arguing over the law.

Pruden argues Hill is state's chief legal officer and longtime prosecutor - okay to hear his perspective.

Objection sustained and Pruden asked to phrase questions more directly.

Now asking about the goal of the Republicans Attorneys General Association.

Did Hill or staff provide statements to RAGA about the allegations? He doesn't recall.

Did you have AG staffers assist in the drafting of press statements?

Hill - I can't answer that without seeing what you are talking about.

Now going over emails that have drafts of various statements between staff and Hill.

Sometimes outside attorneys, campaign staffers and friends are also included on the emails.

Hill points out the emails are on private email addresses but Pruden notes they are employees working on statements during the work day.

Hill says employees assisted but not in the capacity of the office - on their own personal time.

Pruden notes Hill objected to this email as being under attorney-client privilege. Basically saying he can't have it both ways - Negangard was either acting as his attorney for the office or working on personal time.

Now an email from Hill to campaign aide about a statement to be sent to RAGA. Titled "RAGA Donor One-Pager."

Hill said the draft went into too much detail "in ways that are unnecessarily unflattering."

Hill noted that if it were to be sent "it needs to be a very positive highlight reel that is repetitive and a vindication of my position."

It was sent in November 2018.

Hill seems very confused on these emails and who sent them and what they said etc.

In general, Pruden is showing coordination between official state office and campaign.

Hill says just because he was copied on an email doesn't mean he actually read it.

Hill says again Aaron Negangard works for the AG's office but also is an individual.

Now Hill is acting like he doesn't know that an LTE is a letter to the editor.

Now an email from march 2019 titled "background on disciplinary committee members."

It talks about pitching a story to conservative media that "Holcomb cronies and liberals are driving this?"

Hill's response to that email was "thank you. very enlightening."

The commission refers to members of the Indiana Supreme Court Disciplinary Commission, which ultimately filed charges against Hill.

We are back after a short break. During the break Hill was smiling and acting pretty relaxed.

Hill said his attorneys sought clarification of the Taft report on the allegations that had been adjusted by Reardon.

Sorry guys, there is back and forth but really just restating testimony.

Now Hill is reviewing a news release his office put out after the release of the Taft report.

This is when Hill said he would not resign. Called the allegations "vicious and false."

Do you stand by your position that the allegations were vicious?

Hill - The allegations and the way in which it was handled and leaked to the press was vicious from a political standpoint.

Now we have redirect.

Whoa - no redirect. The defense rests.

We will have some brief closing statements I believe.

A reminder to everyone. There will be no verdict. Judge Selby will take under advisement and send a recommendation on guilt and sanction to Indiana Supreme Court.

ISC will make final decision.

Apparently no closings.