So this is a first year con that looks like a disaster waiting to happen in every single way.
Like even if Vic *wasn't* being invited.
Like even if Vic *wasn't* being invited.
This isn't 2004 anymore, and when I see a site like this it means one thing: they aren't paying attention to the small details.
If a con's not putting effort into their first point of contact, what else are they dropping the ball on?
If a con's not putting effort into their first point of contact, what else are they dropping the ball on?
I mean, look, first year cons having terrible websites isn't super uncommon -- but this is at a level that's really only still acceptable if your con is a free con being run at a high school.
Or like a free con at a university.
Or like a free con at a university.
I mean, "free" or "less than $10" entry is what this site screams.
And if that were the case, I'd be more forgiving.
Spoiler: This con costs a lot more money to attend.
And if that were the case, I'd be more forgiving.
Spoiler: This con costs a lot more money to attend.
This. Con. Is. Expensive. As. Fuck. 
You read that right -- $40 for a one day pass, and $70 for a two day pass.
Those are the preregistration prices.
For a first year con.
Those are the preregistration prices.
For a first year con.
For contrast, prereg for a 4 day badge at Anime Expo is $85.
A 3 day badge for Acen, prereg, is $63-$80 depending when you do it.
A 3 day badge for Acen, prereg, is $63-$80 depending when you do it.
Those were big cons.
Medium sized cons like Daisho Con or Anime Milwaukee charge $50 for a three day badge.
But hell, SMALL anime cons, like No Brand Con, charge $30 for a three day badge at prereg. $40 at the door.
Medium sized cons like Daisho Con or Anime Milwaukee charge $50 for a three day badge.
But hell, SMALL anime cons, like No Brand Con, charge $30 for a three day badge at prereg. $40 at the door.
And make no mistake -- these guys will be lucky to hit AMKE's numbers.
And cons are plentiful on the west coast.
Even if no one else ends up on that weekend, there are other places for attendees to spend their money.
And cons are plentiful on the west coast.
Even if no one else ends up on that weekend, there are other places for attendees to spend their money.
As in, spend less money for more con.
Cons that are likely to be run better.
Cons that are likely to be run better.
And finally, the one thing that I always find concerning is when a convention doesn't tell you who the hell is running it.
There's no owner listed. No parent organization. Nothing.
There's no owner listed. No parent organization. Nothing.
"Otaku World Expo" is not the name of a corporation or LLC legally operating in California. So either it's owned by a company with a different name (which is fine but it should be listed), or is being run by an individual.
If it's the latter, it's just hilarious.
If it's the latter, it's just hilarious.
Like if a con is run by an individual it should still LIST THAT PERSON'S NAME.
The first rule to first year cons is never trust an event that doesn't tell you who is in charge.
The first rule to first year cons is never trust an event that doesn't tell you who is in charge.
But if the con is just being run by some guy, it also means the con owner is personally liable.
Like if someone sues.
Or, which is way more likely, if the con tanks and can't pay the bills
Like if someone sues.
Or, which is way more likely, if the con tanks and can't pay the bills
Even if people show up, first year cons often lose money.
And they're relying on people still caring about Vic Mignogna a year from now.
Like this is going to make Wine Country Comic Con's numbers look good.
And they're relying on people still caring about Vic Mignogna a year from now.
Like this is going to make Wine Country Comic Con's numbers look good.
(If you don't know about WCCC, google it -- and they failed with Vic as a guest BEFORE any victims came forward)
The first rule to starting a con is always be prepared to lose every penny you put into it the first year. Some cons get lucky, most don't.
And if the prices are this high? Dude is not prepared for how much this might cost them even if people DO show up.
And if the prices are this high? Dude is not prepared for how much this might cost them even if people DO show up.
It's true -- it makes no sense if they don't know each other.
Between this and the con tagging TUGgy, it's clear the con runner is in on this stuff.
Between this and the con tagging TUGgy, it's clear the con runner is in on this stuff.
Yes and no.
Like it's kind of meaningless? It's small for the ISWV crowd as a whole, but would be huge if it were locals. But it isn't locals.
So it's nonsense.
Like it's kind of meaningless? It's small for the ISWV crowd as a whole, but would be huge if it were locals. But it isn't locals.
So it's nonsense.
I talked about WCCC for comparison -- so if you want to learn more, here's our tag for it on N&T.
You can skip the podcasts if you want -- the articles cover all the important bits nerdandtie.com/tag/wine-count…
You can skip the podcasts if you want -- the articles cover all the important bits nerdandtie.com/tag/wine-count…
It's possible, and I considered it. But some venues don't immediately update their public calendars after a booking -- so someone would need to call to check.
(I am far too lazy to call right now over a con this unimportant)
I honestly don't think it is a scam. Just run by someone who doesn't know what they're doing and thinks cons are a way to make a quick buck.
I've seen their type before, and they usually implode and end up in massive debt.
I've seen their type before, and they usually implode and end up in massive debt.
Nah, it's way cheaper to run a con in Minnesota.
I'd be up for it, but how do we prove it's a scam or not if the con gets cancelled due to pure incompetence instead of malice? 😆
Nah, we all noticed. 😆
I expect at least one more date change, and possibly a venue change before this thing gets canned.
But if you think I haven't seen plenty of (poorly run) real cons that took place announce a venue they hadn't actually booked yet...
But if you think I haven't seen plenty of (poorly run) real cons that took place announce a venue they hadn't actually booked yet...
So there are three categories of cons this could fall into:
1. Poorly run cons that are terrible due to incompetence
(Examples: Dashcon, Comic Excitement Convention, Borough Con)
1. Poorly run cons that are terrible due to incompetence
(Examples: Dashcon, Comic Excitement Convention, Borough Con)
2. Cons that are run by iffy people, but are still genuine attempts to run conventions.
(Example: Wine Country Comic Con, Outlaw Comic Con)
(Example: Wine Country Comic Con, Outlaw Comic Con)
3. Outright Scams
(Any Con Announced by Angry Goat Productions -- none of them happened)
(Any Con Announced by Angry Goat Productions -- none of them happened)
Right now this feels like one or two, definitely not three.
But I've been wrong before.
But I've been wrong before.
In my experience the con artists do a better job on the website.
Spite cons are very real. Would this be the first one to spite an entire industry? 😆
Very.
And they usually end up massive monetary failures whose owners keep funding them until they can't dig the hole any deeper.
And then some actually survive and succeed
And they usually end up massive monetary failures whose owners keep funding them until they can't dig the hole any deeper.
And then some actually survive and succeed
(It's rare that they ever do better than the events they're doing it in spite of though.)
Since I can't think of anything off the top of my head for Portland (beyond Walker Stalker's failure), I'd be interested to hear about this.
The fact that it's unclear who is running this to start with is enough reason to avoid the con no matter who is in charge of it.
I consider that still category 1.
Oh, I've seen so much worse 😆
Fyre Festival was a mix of Category 1 and 2 all the way depending on which organizer you're talking about.
I think there must be at least one genuine Vic supporter there.
But they're counting on Vic still having support in a year... and I think there's a good chance the asshole brigade will move on by then.
But they're counting on Vic still having support in a year... and I think there's a good chance the asshole brigade will move on by then.
Not that specifically, but the early to mid 2000s were a dark, dark time 😆
(Like that whole site screams 2004)
Simply because most scam artists start by scamming a graphic designer. 😆
Ah, it happened while Nerd & Tie was largely covering Midwestern cons.
Definitely worth reading.
I'll take that bet. I've seen so many bad show runners that guys like this are a dime a dozen. You can't throw a rock without hitting one. 🤣
And Anime Iowa intentionally has high prices to keep their attendance numbers down. 😆
People have been trying to use cons as a get rich quick scheme since forever, and as the con scene has grown so have the number of idiots trying to get in on it.
Well that and the con scene is pretty packed these days. We literally don't need more cons until some of the market dies off.
Nah, this strikes me as being run by one of the "reactionary webs" themselves
*Weebs. Damned autocorrect
That would be the thesis of this thread, yes.
The pricing is just insane. I'm 100% confident it's because the venue they want is expensive as hell. I doubt anyone planning this has put together a con budget before.
God... Reactor was such a mess.
And kept changing its name
And kept changing its name
You assume they can afford a ball pit.
Ball pits cost money.
Ball pits cost money.
Like I said, ball pits cost money. 😆
Oh you sweet summer child... I don't want to make this about Vic, but if you think being invited to a con like this is a "win," you're going to live a life of disappointment.
They can't ever accept that something isn't about their creeplord. It's sad really.
Vic's drawing power in a year will be a factor, but you're kind of jumping on a footnote and missing the thesis.
"You're a liar."
Imagine being so hyperfocused that thinking the mere mention of the creeplord means that everything is about the creeplord.
Imagine being so hyperfocused that thinking the mere mention of the creeplord means that everything is about the creeplord.
This is what you think "owning" someone looks like?
Oh. Oh you sweet, naive thing...
Oh. Oh you sweet, naive thing...
Don't try to reason with "esaron." The poor child is very easily confused.
You know, I quoted the wrong tweet of yours before, but since you've been so kind to... send it a second time? I guess I'll pat you on the head.
There. You got the attention you wanted.
There. You got the attention you wanted.
1. You showed up in my mentions, not the other way around - so I'll reply how I feel like.
2. Why do you think I want something from you?
3. Not a boy.
2. Why do you think I want something from you?
3. Not a boy.
They are quite persistent.
Never said I was a lady.
And if you don't understand why I'm talking about cons, then you showed up in my mentions without doing your homework on me.
Kind of a self own you did there, huh.
And if you don't understand why I'm talking about cons, then you showed up in my mentions without doing your homework on me.
Kind of a self own you did there, huh.
Why do you keep spamming your replies? You are far too impatient, child.
That... that isn't how Twitter works.
They sure are grumpy.
Yeah, it's certainly a pretty misguided promotional strategy.
Are you quite alright? Does someone need to do a wellness check on you?
Maybe they're freaking out because their posts get hidden by Twitter's quality filter?
I think I was mostly hoping he'd be able to string a couple of coherent thoughts together at least.
Your timeline is public, and what you say reflects on you.
That you find someone describing it so offensive is strange.
That you find someone describing it so offensive is strange.
They see everything as a black and white war, so even commenting on something mildly related to them is seen as an attack.
It's pretty sad.
It's pretty sad.
We get it, you don't understand how Twitter works.
You are literally spouting nonsense.
This was a thread about Otaku World Expo.
You are fighting an imaginary war.
This was a thread about Otaku World Expo.
You are fighting an imaginary war.
Yeah. I've never written about conventions before. Never.
That isn't like a thing I've been doing for, like, ever.
You clearly have it all figured out.
That isn't like a thing I've been doing for, like, ever.
You clearly have it all figured out.
I mean I'm not from the area either.
I just... write about disaster cons a lot 😆
I just... write about disaster cons a lot 😆
Yep. Don't run a convention news site or anything.
Haven't written a bunch of articles about convention failures.
And I haven't staffed cons for over twenty years.
Yep.
Haven't written a bunch of articles about convention failures.
And I haven't staffed cons for over twenty years.
Yep.
So yeah, this con is a mess, and I'm sorry I got derailed arguing with a vicstan.
They do seem to ruin anything they interact with.
They do seem to ruin anything they interact with.
See, here I am talking about cons, and this guy shows up thinking we've slept together at some point.
(Seriously though, what a creep)
I wish that you were a creep? That's a weird thing to say.
But that's not what you replied to. You replied to the "creep" comment.
...you replied to the second tweet, which was a different statement though.
If you wanted to reply to the prior statement, that is the tweet you should have replied to.
This is how normal people use twitter.
If you wanted to reply to the prior statement, that is the tweet you should have replied to.
This is how normal people use twitter.
(Also I would like to apologize to anyone reading this for having implied that esaron has ever had sex)
1. I haven't lied.
2. This thread is less than a day old... so... wut?
2. This thread is less than a day old... so... wut?
Someone really should. It'd be hilarious if the con was booking guests prior to booking their venue.
You don't read all that well, huh.
It's so hard when you make fun of someone and the joke goes soaring over their head.
No. That's an insult to goblins.
Sorry kid, can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding
Like this is as pricey as Anime Expo.
Sure both are in California, but this ain't in Anime Expo's weight class 😆
Sure both are in California, but this ain't in Anime Expo's weight class 😆
That's not what the phrase means. I'm not the one you were shaking hands with in the metaphor.
Wow. Just wow. Try to keep up just a little
Wow. Just wow. Try to keep up just a little
I started the news section at Nerd & Tie because I got tired of no one reporting on convention issues
What is a "slayer of yeti" and what does it have to do with Otaku World Expo?
I mean, just googling cons would tell him this OWE is overpriced
I'm pretty sure he's never read the full thread.
I read your two tweet "thread."
What do any of those things have to do with Otaku World Expo.
What do any of those things have to do with Otaku World Expo.
That tweet wasn't about you.
Do you... do you think this whole thread has been about you? Are you that slow? Do you not get that I'm threading all the replies I respond to back into the thread?
Do you... do you think this whole thread has been about you? Are you that slow? Do you not get that I'm threading all the replies I respond to back into the thread?
Like he could have googled them himself. But he didn't.
Because some people just talk out of their ass. 😆
Because some people just talk out of their ass. 😆
I'm thinking "garbage fire" more than anything else.
I don't know. Probably because OWE went and tagged in a bunch of prominent ISWV people as part of their announcement-- which is a strange thing to do.
Most cons want to at least pretend to be neutral publicly.
Most cons want to at least pretend to be neutral publicly.
Yes. That person is you. Glad you're admitting it.
Well, it's gotten me sued -- so who knows if it was the right move. 🤣
(If anyone's interested -- gofund.me/nerdandtie )
You still don't know what's happening here, huh.
1. What are you talking about.
2. The phrase "You can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding" means you can't say or do something in seriousness and then pretend it was a joke afterwards.
Yeesh, I should not have to explain quotes this easy.
2. The phrase "You can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding" means you can't say or do something in seriousness and then pretend it was a joke afterwards.
Yeesh, I should not have to explain quotes this easy.
(And now I have TMBG in my head)
Except you didn't understand it.
What did I do three weeks ago.
What did I do three weeks ago.
This person likes to retroactively pretend that they understood things that they didn't, or say that they had been joking when they weren't.
All out of a fear of losing nonexistent rhetorical points.
It's pretty pathetic, really.
All out of a fear of losing nonexistent rhetorical points.
It's pretty pathetic, really.
IT SURE IS.
I do mostly anime cons, with some gaming cons mixed in. But I largely do webcomics, and need an audience that cares/knows what they are.
The former can't be found at comic cons, and the latter isn't at Scifi cons 😛
The former can't be found at comic cons, and the latter isn't at Scifi cons 😛
Well I also cofounded and help run an anime con (No Brand Con) so leaving anime cons would be kinda hard for me too.
Also, for anyone who's made it this far into the thread, remember I'm a guest at Youmacon this weekend! 😆
Correct.
All fire. 😆
All fire. 😆
Do we actually know it's not booked? All we know is that it's not on the website yet.
And it's important to remember that other, earnest cons have screwed up and announced before booking their venues before.
And it's important to remember that other, earnest cons have screwed up and announced before booking their venues before.
Sometimes cons are just bad at this.
Technically no, actually 😆
I'd be interested to know how it goes.
As for N&T, I can't even afford to pay *myself*, so sorry.
As for N&T, I can't even afford to pay *myself*, so sorry.
Yeah, that was my guess too -- but since I don't think I really interacted with that account it was still a weird thing to refer to.
That would require whoever runs their twitter to know their bookings, but it's worth a shot.
I mostly was avoiding contacting the venue because I didn't want to be seen as interfering 😆
I mostly was avoiding contacting the venue because I didn't want to be seen as interfering 😆
It's because of the thing with the bridges.
Not surprising. This whole thing smacks of "guy who volunteered as a badger at a con once and now thinks he could run one."
I've seen the type many times before.
I've seen the type many times before.
Nah, this looks like an incompetent real attempt.
Like I said before, scammers usually have better websites.
Like I said before, scammers usually have better websites.
