Thread by @derekradney

Listening in on Overtures Committee
#pcaga

They are now discussing overtures on sexuality.

#pcaga

Discussing Constitutional inquiry: what affirming the Nashville Statement would even mean for the PCA?

#pcaga

Postponing consideration of Overture 4 until after discussing O42.
#pcaga

Considering postponing, that is...
#pcaga

@SeanMLucas is doing an awesome job moderating the OC.
OC just voted to stay with considering Overture 4.
#pcaga

Good arguments, IMO, being made to answer O4 in the negative.
#pcaga

Several ppl suggesting we should slow down, do a study committee and not jump to adopt Nashville.

#pcaga

Commissioner argues Nashville Statement is not pastoral & doesn’t help us receive refugees frm sexual revolution.
@kawekiuokalani making heartfelt plea that the NS is not pastorally helpful & that it would harm congregants, need PCA to do study committee.
#pcaga

Others arguing we need to make a strong stand and statement by adopting NS.
#pcaga

@jpipajr says we can adopt O4 and have a study committee.
@fredgreco clarifies parliamentary procedure as someone moved to previous question.
@SeanMLucas is still doing great with procedure.
Lots of laughter. Good spirit here.
#pcaga

Roy Taylor just arrived at OC.
Glad he recovered from food poisoning.
#pcaga

@kevinjtwit gives great speech about the dangers of NS, saying this will lose young ppl b/c it doesn’t lead with “I’m sorry.”
We need a study committee. He’s been dealing with this for 20yrs. Ppl who think NS is clear haven’t been listening.
This issue needs extra care.
#pcaga

Divide seems to be btw ppl who are thinking abt the pastoral impact of NS & those who want to make a statement abt the truth.
No substantive difference apparent on the doctrine itself.
#pcaga

Commissioner notes a specific difference with NS abt self-conception & murky language.

#pcaga

Debate continues after a failed move to previous question.
#pcaga

Sitting in the same row of @Irwyn & @BryanChapell and @JoelBranscomb
#pcaga

Commissioners debating pronouns and pastoring.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues we need to grieve & listen more before adopting declarations.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues that the Westminster Catechisms pastorally show what is forbidden and also what is required, which NS doesn’t do well as relates to Christians w/ same sex attraction.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues we cannot only focus on pastoral ministry forgetting our prophetic ministry.
#pcaga

It’s hard to hear commissioners because the mic is not loud and the crowd outside the hall is loud!
#pcaga

@dukekwondc is now in the row too.
#pcaga

Commissioner notes more problems with NS, especially as it comes from CBMW which perhaps overprescribes gender roles and attraction/heterosexuality.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues we should lead in repentance and NS does not do so. We have failed in our ministry to those w/ SSA & we need to lead in repentance.
#pcaga

Commissioner says NS will drive ppl further into hiding and not invite them into the light and to help from fellow sinners.
#pcaga

Commissioner says we live in a culture of fear and there is a lot of fear in how some ppl want to respond to the sexual revolution.
#pcaga

Packed room. Standing room only.
#pcaga

Vote to answer O4 in the affirmative passed: 74-53-1
#pcaga

Personal commentary: really disappointed in that vote. I cannot understand how anyone can vote for accepting NS after hearing that speech by @kevinjtwit
#pcaga

Now on debating O11
#pcaga

Procedural motion to combine overtures on sexuality for consideration together and to take up O42 on forming a study committee.
#pcaga

@kevinjtwit arguing for the procedural motion and the study committee, appealing to the majority not to push through but to slow down and build unity so we can speak together.
#pcaga

Gotta say, as a former baptist, I love the orderliness of Presbyterianism.
#pcaga

Procedural motion fails because the vote was a tie! (2nd tie today)
Back to O11.
#pcaga

O11 amended to say the NAPARC statement is “helpful” rather than “entirely adequate”.
#pcaga

O11 has passed 97-24-4
#pcaga

@SeanMLucas suggests the OC will have to work tomorrow as he plans to break for dinner at 5pm.
Must now approve a partial report on today’s work and then on to O37.
#pcaga

Once again, a procedural motion to consider O42 on the study committee rather than continuing with these overtures
#pcaga

Once again, the procedural motion fails. Back to O37.
#pcaga

Must of missed something but they’re on O28 now.
#pcaga

@jpipajr at the microphone to call for addressing the elephant in the room: SSA
#pcaga

On to O35
So now I know what happened: 2 procedural motions have passed to skip discussion on O37 & O28.
#pcaga

A challenge to the rule of the chair @SeanMLucas who is doing a great job. All of this is being done with such respect and decency!
#pcaga

@fredgreco asks the parliamentarian to clarify.
Point we’ll taken by @SeanMLucas
#pcaga

It looks like O35 will be ruled out of order because statements of reaffirmation of that which has been previously adopted are out of order.
So ruled.
On to O39
#pcaga

Still hard at work discussing procedure
#pcaga

O39 is ruled out of order for the same reason as the previous.
116-5-2
#pcaga

Now O42. Due to time, @SeanMLucas says they need to come back at 7:30pm tonight and will continue again in the morning.
@fredgreco asks to start at 8am tomorrow b/c he has a lunch at 11:30am. Chair agrees.
#pcaga

Discussing O42 for a study committee. The reason: listening, repenting, state doctrine, rationale biblically and culturally, and pastoral guidance.
#pcaga

Commissioners discussing the exact instruction to give the proposed study committee in O42.
#pcaga

O42 has been amended regarding language on instructing the proposed study committee.
Back to main motion to affirm O42.
New amendment coming abt Central Carolina’s report on #revoice

#pcaga

Another amendment to include the Missouri Presbytery’s #revoice report in the study committees study.
#pcaga

Commissioner speaks against the Missouri Pres report to be included and the study committee because he says we’ve spoken clearly with one voice.
#pcaga

Amendment to include Missouri Pres report passes. Now on to the amendment as a whole to add both presbyteries study reports.
Passes.
On to main to answer in the affirmative.
#pcaga

Guy Waters argues against a study waters and motions to substitute by answering in the negative.
Reason: the study committee won’t provide anything we don’t already have and it does nothing more than reflect one assembly if adopted. Plus it is costly.
#pcaga

O42 amended to require 3TEs & 3REs as writers.
Back to the main motion to answer O42 in the affirmative.
Recess declared until 7:30pm
#pcaga

Gearing up for the next round at OC.
#pcaga

Back to O42
#pcaga

@kevinjtwit calling for a study committee that will help with the nuances because there is broad agreement among the margins on the main issues in play.
#pcaga

Commissioner motions to amend by adding a focus on the differences btw Reformed and RC views of concupiscence.
Amendment passes.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues for a substitute motion to answer in the negative.
He says lower courts are supposed to deal with these questions. The work is being done grassroots, not top down.
Plus study committees don’t answer the main ?s b/c it’s the lower common denominator.
#pcaga

Many arguing against the study committee now said earlier today that we can “take a stand now” by passing the NS and also have a study committee.
#pcaga

More voices about “taking a biblical stand” and claiming a study committee with cloud the issue.
#pcaga

speech urging the OC 2 support a study committee b/c his Presbytery and his church needs help navigating the pastoral handling of very complex issues involved.
How do we walk w/ ppl who were told they must choose their child’s gender?
pleads 4 help frm a study committee.
#pcaga

Follow up argument that a study committee isn’t the way to give this help.
#pcaga

@revjkessler again notes that arguments earlier said we could affirm NS and have a study committee. Seems like the majority is changing course on prior “commitment”
#pcaga

Commissioner argues we should study scripture and not a study committee.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues for a study committee for numerous reasons, one of which is that multiple statements do not give us clear and practical guidance as a denomination.
#pcaga

@jpipajr speaks against a study committee saying it will promote division. He mentions a TE who has publicly come out as a “gay Christian” in CT. He says a report will not solve the division. He says we must take a stand now.
#pcaga

@kevinjtwit point of order and asks that the speaker retract misrepresentations.
Chair agrees.
Pipa apologizes and continues that we must give an answer.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues for a study committee and says he loves pious advice and wants this greatly.
#pcaga

Commissioner speaks in favor of the main O42 for a study committee.
@fredgreco point of privilege, “It’s hot.” Chair agrees.

#pcaga

Commissioner argues for study committee comparing SSA to his anxiety, anger, depression. Asks for guidance pastorally. Doesn’t believe that help can come out of this committee today. Needs a study committee.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues there are enough resources out there. No need for study committee. He was on Central Carolina study committee. Says the Missouri & Central Carolina are very different. Consensus not possible.
#pcaga

Commissioner says he supports study committee and he went to Recoice in 2018 with a congregant. Didn’t agree with all said there. Calls for us to care for the vulnerable & not just protect denom. SC won’t solve all prblms but will help us care for the vulnerable.
#pcaga

Vote to make the substitute (to answer in the negative) the main.
Motion fails.
#Pcaga

Voting on main motion to answer O42 in the affirmative as amended.
Motion passes: 72-54-0
#pcaga

OC answers O30 O44 & O45 in reference to O42.
#pcaga

Discussing O37
Mic ran out of battery mid speech on how O37 violates the conscience.
#pcaga

Debate is over whether to answer in affirmative or the substitute motion to answer in reference to O4
#pcaga

@SeanMLucas is now getting tongue tied abt amending the main. He’s been doing great all day.
#pcaga

Seeing commissioners walking around without shoes now.
It’s getting late and been a long day.
#pcaga

Commissioner points out that our identity is in Christ.
#pcaga

@SeanMLucas is preparing for a recess until 8am.
Forming a subcommittee to explain grounds for work up unto this point headed up by @fredgreco
@MeltonDuncan will lead another subcommittee.
@kevinjtwit another.
Prayer.
Recess called. O37 first thing tomorrow.
#pcaga

Ok, day 2 will kick off shortly on O37.

The coffee is really expensive here and the line was horrendously long, so the tone and quality of this thread might take a turn for the worse.
#nocoffee
#pcaga

Overtures Committee will soon be looking at the question of domestic abuse. There’s an overture to create a study committee. Last yr this issue came up re: a Presbytery and a sessions’s handling of a domestic abuse.
Opening now in prayer.
#pca

Clerk Roy Taylor addressing the OC, says this is the highest attended GA west of the Mississippi, which means it’s a controversial GA. Perhaps every report will probably have controversy.
We will be very pressed for time, so he hopes ppl won’t say things already said.
#pcaga

9 Overtures dealing with domestic abuse.
#pcaga

Listening in on some commissioners striking deals in the line to speak at the microphone while one commissioner offers extensive amendments to O37.
Amendment seems aimed at identity markers.
#pcaga

Commissioner against the amendment b/c this word-smithing will be a waste of time since this overtures will probably be answered in reference to O42.
#pcaga

Chair is reminding commissioners to diversify the speeches since this O has been debated already.
#pcaga

Commissioner supporting O37 because he has a problem with the term "gay Christian."
Next commissioner offers a substitute to the whole to answer this in reference to O42.
#pcaga

Chair @SeanMLucas is encouraging the commissioners to move along and deal with the three approaches to this O.
#pcaga

Voting to make the motion to answer O37 with reference to O42 the main.
Substitute for the whole motion fails.
We have a main to answer in the affirmative & a substitute to answer in reference to O4.
#pcaga

@kevinjtwit calls commissioners to slow down and not be quick to solidify the language we use on this issue until after the study committee, citing multiple biblical passages where identity markers are used that do not trump a person's Christian identity.
#pcaga

Next commissioner moves to previous question. Several votes on substitutes, and we're now on the original substitute to answer O37 with reference to O4. Very close vote.
#pcaga

Now voting to answer O37 with reference to O4.
Motion passes: 71-52-2
#pcaga

Now on to O28. Motion to answer with reference with O4.
Commissioner urges everyone to recognize time and to urge everyone not to debate this motion and to recover the same ground as O37.
Things seem to be moving a bit faster now.
#pcaga

Personal Note: One reason I am live tweeting this is to show ppl the process of church courts. It is tedious at times, but it really helps commissioners deliberate & come to clarity. It doesn't always lead to the best outcome, but it helps build unity.
#pcaga

Commissioner droning on rehashing arguments, biblical references, and culture war rhetoric.
The chair reminds him we've covered this ground and asks him to consider our time.
The commissioner continues.
#pcaga

I have coffee now (thanks @JoelBranscomb) but it hasn't kicked in yet, so that's why my last tweet was snarky.
#pcaga

O28 answered with reference with O4.
#pcaga

That moves us to a new bucket of Overtures dealing with sexual assault and domestic abuse.
We're on O7.
#pcaga

CCB is now addressing the committee because this overture calls for money from the AC budget. So CCB is saying that this particular overture is in conflict with the constitution because of that call for money since study committees must get money from outside the AC.
#pcaga

Commissioner asks to postpone O7 and to take up O10 and then answer a whole bunch together to save time.
O10 looks to be the one ppl want to pass.
#pcaga

@fredgreco thinks O7 is superior to O10. He urges to stay on O7.
#pcaga

Commissioner notes a failure last year in RPR regarding abuse and domestic violence, and we appeared unresponsive to crisis. We need processes that better accounts for the nature of abuse and trauma and church courts.
#pcaga

Personal commentary: I agree with the previous commissioner. This is desperately needed. Our procedures can easily be used to sideline abuse victims who may not be able to follow carefully the deadlines and procedures for filling complaints or charges.
#pcaga

Personal Commentary: We have to be proactive here. We cannot wait for more cases to rise through the courts where victims are being further victimized by our failure to know how to protect abuse victims.
We need expert counsel from those who know trauma and abuse.
#pcaga

Amendments to O7 pass that deal with constitutional funding issues.
#pcaga

Commissioner, who may be a judge who has seen many cases involving abuse, says he thinks a study committee won'y do any good.
#pcaga

Commentary: There seems to be a real suspicion of study committees by a number of commissioners, especially those who want more RE influence. My sense is there is a populism that is suspicious of experts & elites.
#pcaga

Commissioner wants to strike the word "domestic oppression" because of *abuses* of the term.
Jerid Krulish gives great speech in defense of the term b/c abuse extends beyond physical harm to other forms of manipulation, shaming, & controlling.
#pcaga

Several commissioners have shared very personal stories regarding abuse of family members, & another commissioner raises a point of order to encourage the commissioners to be careful not say things which could allow ppl to identify individuals.
#pcaga

Many arguments back & forth about the term "domestic oppression."
Commentary: Might be missing the forest for the trees here...
#pcaga

Voting on amendment to strike "domestic oppression."
Amendment fails.
@SeanMLucas reminds committee where we are with various motions.
Commissioner moves to previous question to go to substitute to answer in the negative.
#pcaga

Substitute fails, back to the main to answer O7 in the affirmative.
#pcaga

Commissioner asks whether or not we believe the bible. Do we need a study committee when we have the Bible. Why do we need information?
Commentary: This speech is absolutely ridiculous.
#pcaga

O7 answered in the affirmative as amended (regarding money).
104-20-0
#pcaga

@fredgreco moves to answer many overtures on domestic abuse in reference to O7.
@SeanMLucas appears pleased with this to move business along.
And there was much rejoicing.
#pcaga

Motions lumped together in reference to O7 and the vote passes 122-1-0.
#pcaga

On to a new group of overtures related to non-ordained persons serving on committees and board.
First up, O8.
#pcaga

CCB says these overtures are in conflict with the constitution because the change to the BCO would then conflict with RAO, so both need to be changed or no change to the BCO alone should take place.
#pcaga

These overtures reflect a consistent attempt to make space for women to serve on committees and boards of denomination institutions.
A long line is forming.
#pcaga

@fredgreco makes impassioned speech against these overtures, to answer in the negative. Says we dealt w/ this issue already. He notes non-ordained members may not hold to our doctrinal standards & may sway our agencies/institutions.
#pcaga

Commentary: Seems like an easy fix is to make sure non-ordained persons who would serve on committee take a vow to uphold the standards. Not necessary to block this possibility. Question abt ruling function of these committees is still valid.
#pcaga

@SeanMLucas asks if anyone has a copy of the BCO because of a point of order raised by a commissioner regarding 14-1. Overture 8 introduces verbiage that doesn't reflect the current BCO.
#pcaga

Chair rules these are typographical errors that will be corrected without the process of amendment.
The chair is doing such a great job with process. I am in awe.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues we r a complementarian church, not egalitarian or patriarchal. That means every person using his/her gifts in the appropriate ways.
Says committees make recommendations & do not rule. They r subject to the GA court, so women should b able 2 serve there.
#pcaga

Commissioner argues that committees have a lot of power and exercise a sort of rule, so women shouldn't be on them b/c that would put us at odds with the Apostle Paul.
#pcaga

Chair again references time. He wants to finish by noon. Have to complete overtures and form committees to write grounds.
#pcaga

Commissioner TE Daniel Schrock gives speech repeating what other commissioners have already said abt this issue being addressed already in the past.
#pcaga

Same commissioner is still talking and saying what others have said.
#pcaga

Still going on and on. Huge line behind him. No one really listening anymore.
#pcaga

Finally ended. Chair reminds the commissioners to be mindful of the time.
#pcaga

Commissioners speaks to affirm the main. He seems to be trying to address all the points brought up against the motion.
Long line behind him, and it seems like many ppl want to speak against this.
#pcaga

More problems with hearing ppl on the microphone b/c commissioners are not speaking into it.
Point of personal privilege made to demonstrate how to speak into the non-multidirectional mic.
#pcaga

Commissioner now reading a committee report to attempt to make the point that these committees rule.
#pcaga

TE Ben Lyon speaking in favor. We r conflating the work of the courts & the work of the committee. It isn't the purpose of the O 2 bring non-ordained ppl in2 the authoritative work of the courts. Rather, the work of these committees relies on the gifts of ppl not ordained.
#pcaga

Commissioner sees a difference in non-ordained members of committees in churches & what this O calls for. If non-ordained persons serve on committees of GA, they will rule & exercise authority, and these ppl could be outside the membership of the PCA & thus unaccountable.
#pcaga

Esteemed @kevinjtwit at the mic again. Chair encourages brevity. Men & women vote ordained officers in2 office. We're not hierarchical. Individual elders don't have authority over individual mmbrs. We have courts. O seeks 2 allow ppl 2 serve & not rule,& has safe guards.
#pcaga

Argues we shouldn't be more restrictive than Scripture.
Next commissioner says this isn't abt men & women but about ordination. We should only have ordained ppl serving on these committees.
#pcaga

Commissioner notes the BCO already allows advisors & no need for non-ordaining voting members.
#pcaga

Main motion to answer O8 in the negative passes 84-38-0

Round of applause for Chair @SeanMLucas 's handling of the committee.
#pcaga

Motion to answer multiple Os in reference to O7.

#pcaga

Motion passes 111-4-4 to answer a number of Os in reference to O8.
#pcaga

On to O2. But first...
Procedural motion regarding when O11 is considered on the GA floor because changes that were made would resolve issues with another committees recommendation.
#pcaga

Motion passes.
On to O2.
Chair says, please, let's deal with these last 4 overtures and grounds.
#pcaga

Motion to answer O2 in the affirmative with an amendment. This deals with releasing covenant seminary from the denomination's oversight and from being a PCA agency.
#pcaga

President Dr. Dalbey is in the room. A commissioner recounts how this O came to be and argues this is the path of the future.
#pcaga

CCB speaking now about O2. Notes this issue that has come up a number of times. It creates conflict in the constitution b/c if it passes, it does not propose relevant changes to other important documents (RAO, etc.).
#pcaga

Current look of the room
#pcaga

@kevinjtwit offers a substitute motion to answer in the negative (seeks to answer with prejudice, but that isn't possible), so just in the negative.
Framing this O as a blessing without talking to the seminary is unhealthy/dysfunctional. Why leave the seminary in the dark?
#pcaga

cont. This O is disingenuous in what it claims to be about. It doesn't ask what the seminary wants and is bad for our witness.
#pcaga

Moved to make the substitute the main, to answer in the negative.
#pcaga

Substitute is now the main.
#pcaga

Procedural motion to invite a person not a part of the committee to speak. This is to get President Dalbey to address the committee.
Motion passes. Dr. Dalbey about to speak.
#pcaga

Dalbey says the seminary does not want to be cut lose, despite what the O might suggest in the whereas section of the O. Authors assured him it is not about Revoice, but about reasons not expressed in the whereas section.
#pcaga

Dr. Dalbey recounts personal interactions but is interrupted on a point of order abt that line of explanation. Chair encourages new direction.
Dr. Dalbey makes it clear that the seminary does not want what this overture calls for, reads board statement.
#pcaga

Dalbey has finished and we are back to answering in the negative.
#pcaga

O2 answered in the negative: 79-39-5
#pcaga

Procedural motion regarding O2 to request an amend of the docket of GA to consider O2 to be differed to after the CoC report. This is to keep constitutional polity in order.
#pcaga

Now on to O40. Motion to answer in the negative.
#pcaga

This overture deals with laying on of hands on women who are serving in lay leader capacities.
#pcaga

Motion to answer O40 in the negative passes overwhelmingly.
#pcaga

I missed an O that was ruled out of order because it calls for the GA to affirm something previously affirmed.
Now we are on to O46 or O48 regarding abortion.
#pcaga

Looks unlikely the committee will wrap up by noon.
#pcaga

Thanks:

https://twitter.com/cfbroom/status/1143920939014479873

#pcaga

Re: O48 - The substitute motion fails. The main motion is to answer in the negative.
#pcaga

O48 answered in the negative: 90-26-6.
#pcaga

All Overtures have now been dealt with. Chair moves to forming subcommittees to write the grounds for the overture recommendations.
I was wrong. This looks like it will wrap up before lunch.
#pcaga

For those who have been following, all this committee work is to make recommendations to the whole General Assembly which will take up business this afternoon but mostly tomorrow. None of these votes do anything but recommend.
#pcaga

Many ppl are noting that this Overtures Committee seems heavily conservative/traditional/Truly-Reformed. We will see what happens on the floor of GA, but it's possible that some of these recommendations will be rejected for the minority reports that will be filed.
#pcaga

The 1st test will b the election of the moderator this afternoon. Moderators appoint the members of study committees, so all GA commissioners will b invested in who wins that election: 2 main RE candidates, but the word I'm getting is that Howie Donahoe is a good choice. #pcaga

He has been described as a big ten unifier of the various groups in the PCA & can help build consensus on study committees rather than stacking them with partisans.
#pcaga

OC is still working on final details. Trying to wrap up before lunch. Room is thinning.
Personal Commentary: I'm hungry.
#pcaga

Assembly will gather for worship at 1:30pm. I won't be tweeting abt that.
Assembly business begins at 3pm. I will try to live tweet the business of the GA the next few days. Will depend on how business goes.
#pcaga

PCA OC has finished its work & adjourned with doxology.
Great work. Even better moderation by Chair @SeanMLucas who receives a round of applause.

I'll try to be back tweeting later.

Personal Commentary: If you aren't already, find a PCA church and become a presbyterian.

#pcaga