I honestly didn't realize how much of "my" eng management philosophy and practice derived from shit I hoovered up from Rich, til midway thru that chat. ☺️
Managing eng managers means you have to help them find and leverage *their* intuitive strengths. Your solutions literally won't work for them.
If you're going to have any chance of helping your managers debug the flaws in their own unique processes and ways of being effective, that is.