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#DisclosuresTribunal Micheál Ó Higgins, for An Garda Siochana, now questioning Gemma O'Doherty. Says he will be asking questions on behalf of Martin Callinan and Noirin O'Sullivan
#DisclosuresTribunal O'H asks O'D to confirm if Taylor/Callinan/NOS ever neg briefed her about Sgt McCabe. O'D confirms this. O'H asks her to confirm if no guard has ever neg briefed her. O'D: Correct
#DisclosuresTribunal O'H draws up article by O'D in Sunday Times March 23, 2014 headlined: "Gardai, stop spying on my toddlers" This is the story:
#DisclosuresTribunal O'D: The context this lady, who was a Traveller was bringing children to get passports and her children's names were put on Pulse system. O'D confirms she had help from Fianna Fail TD John McGuinness.
#DisclosuresTribunal O'H asks if she's aware there was a GSOC investigation into the matter. O'D says yes and says she's also aware the children's names were taken off Pulse as a result
#DIsclosuresTribunal OH now reading out doc to tribunal from supt involved in the GSOC investigation. It includes line: Ms O'D declined to cooperate with my investigation but did confirm to me during a telephone conversation that she had obtained PULSE screen shots...
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] '..and relevant info from John McGuinnes...It is believed that Sgt McCabe provided this information to Mr McGuinness.' OH asks OD if this is true. OD says she's claiming privilege. Judge engaging with OD about this now.
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge: Did you tell the supt that you got info from McGuinness. OD: Answer is I'm claiming privilege. Judge says he's not asking for the course, he's asking if what's written in the doc is correct. OD: I return to my original answer.
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge now asks OH where counsel for AGS is going with this. Says no point in having a row about journalistic privilege over something trivial. OH now saying it's a matter of credit re: John McGuinness and OD
#DisclosuresTribunal OH points out John McGuinness being the source of that story when he gave evidence earlier this year. [Judge and OH having a back and forth about credit]
#DisclosuresTribunal OH says if McGuinness's previous answer was incorrect or untruthful that would be relevant to the judge. OH asks OD again if she demurs from what's in the supt doc. OD repeats: I'm not in a position to discuss my sources on this story.
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge says he's not going to make a ruling about journalistic privilege on this matter. Judge: Maybe there's a point here I'm missing...but perhaps it is the case that if you think there is a good point here, and I'd like to hears it, put it to Ms ODoherty.."
#DisclosuresTribunal OH puts to OD that she's had a lot of contact with McGuinness. OD says McGuinness is most honest TD... a champion when it comes to standing up for victims... Judge steps in and says he's stopped previous witnesses from going off track.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH now asking OD about her work on Mary Boyle and McGuinness support of her in that work. OH puts to her OD uses Twitter a lot to get information out to criticise Martin Callinan. OD: Oh yes.
#DisclosuresTribubnal OD confirms her criticism has continued up until recently. OD confirms she also uses Facebook. O'H draws up Facebook post of Kristofer Shekleton from March 24. Judge steps in and says he's getting irrelevant answers and asks OH to get to the point
#DisclosuresTribunal OH starts to read it..Mark Harty SC, for O'D, steps in and says this isn't O'D's post. Judge stays if someone put War and Peace before O'D she could say she didn't write it..he asks OH to go on and read from it
#DisclosuresTribunal The piece is about Dave Taylor, Noirin O'Sullivan and her husband Jim McGowan. Charleton says it reads like something from Private Eye by Dave Spart. OH puts to her that she shared it on her Facebook page. OD says she'd be amazed if she shared it.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH asks if she's ever seen it before. OD says she might have but she doesn't think she shared it. Judge asks for computer to be shown to OD and ask her if this is her Facebook page and if the post is on the page.
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge repeats, did you take this and put it on some form of social media, did you repost it? OD. My honest answer is I don't believe I did. Charleton asks to see the laptop.
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge reading from the OD's Facebook page and says it seems to be there.
#DisclosuresTribunal Mark Harty says to the tribunal that someone can be tagged on Facebook which means that they didn't put it on their Facebook themselves
#DisclosuresTribunal (It does appear OD was tagged...)
#DisclosuresTribunal OH asks if this allegation (in the post) - which has been withdrawn by Taylor i.e. wiping of phones - were fair to NOS. OD says any dealings she's had with NOS have been negative. OD says if there's public disapproval of her, she's brought it on herself.
#DisclosuresTribunal OD also says she's not responsible for what someone puts on social media. Charleton reminds OH that OD hasn't said anything to him about Noirin O'Sullivan.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH now asking about Martin Callinan's points being wiped. OH raising what OD said yesterday
#DisclosuresTribuna OH reads this bit out. Says OD appears to exclude possibility that they had the pp wiped legitimately. OD said yes because there were no details in the PULSE record for the reason of the termination. OD said it was left blank
#DisclosuresTribunal OH suggests this was a pre-judgement. Says: You appear to have formed the view that he appeared to be abusing the laws for his own personal gain. Suggests that was a pre-judgement and unfair to start from that premise
#DisclosuresTribunal OD says he did have a personal gain - as in no penalty points. She repeats the reason for the termination wasn't on the doc.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH now claiming OD has a certain pattern way of going about things. Says she's made suggested claims about D family without ever meeting D family. OD rejects this.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH now raising emails between OD and Stephen Rae, then editor of Irish Independent, on April 12, 2013. OH reads out OD's email to SR: "The only reason I went to the house was to confirm the address so I had my information correct before I started.."
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] "discussing the story publicly and blaming anybody in the wrong. My error. The story only came to me at about 7pm and I felt it was urgent to puruse it before other media got it. Unfortunatley Ian Peter and Cormac were at the advertising evening,.."
#DisclosuresTribunal ".. and I didn't want to disturb them so I took i on my own bat to see if this sensational story stood up. I absolutely note you comments below and many thanks for informing me of same."
#DisclosuresTribunal OH asks OD what was the error. OD says she wrote the email when she was very stressed. OD says she's not going to re-run her defamation case and says all this correspondence was relevant to her case.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH now asking about OD's getting involved in the tribunal. OH puts to her that she wanted to be centre stage, OD: Absolutely not. Says she wanted facts presented to her before the tribunal.
#DisclosuresTribunal OD says she knows judge asked journalists to come forward if they have information that would assist tribunal and that's what I have done. OH quips: if they give answers.
#DIsclosuresTribunal OH and OD having back and forth over OD's statement to the tribunal from May 18 2017
#DisclosuresTribunal OH: I ask the questions, that's how it works.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH asking OD to confirm if this is her 34-bullet point letter. OD asking what the point of OH's question is.
#DisclosuresTribunal Judge asks OD if she was the author of the doc. OD says it was written over a year ago and would like the chance to read it. Judge says everyone has their papers, legal teams have them...judge says Irish people will have a big bill for this.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH goes to bullet point 14 of OD's statement. It partly says: "NOS launched a book of his and they appear to have had a close relationship." OD says she's clarified this for the tribunal and that she attended the launch
#DisclosuresTribunal OD: Did you knowingly make that error? OD says she doesn't think it is an error, says she was at the launch. She does accept NOS didn't technically launch the book but believes NOS was part of the launch
#DisclosuresTribunal OD says it shows the close relationship between NOS and Paul Williams. OH: You don't seem troubled to have provided incorrect factual info? OD: I corrected the record.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH asks if she listens to Newstalk. OD says no. OH suggests NOS has been criticised heavily by Williams on Newstalk. OD: No. I don't really have an awful lot of time for Paul Williams' journalism.
#DIsclosuresTribunal OH now reading out bullet point 19: "Rumours circulated that a copy of a garda file had been given to PW and that it revealed that Sgt McCabe was under investigation or child sexual abuse. I knew that files were sometimes given to INM"
#DisclosuresTribunal OH asks OD if she thinks it's fair to float a notion and then seek cover, 'I didn't say it, I merely said rumours were said to that effect.' OD: It's my belief. The new INM mngt under Stephen Rae seemed to be in possession of Garda files
#DisclosuresTribunal OH adds that INM had the Garda file on the death of Fr Molloy
#DisclosuresTribunal OH now reading bullet 26: "Gda Wilson also informed me a reporter named Debbie McCann, who worked for the Irish Daily Mail and whose father was a senior Garda was allegedly one of the journalists that was putting the word out that McC was a child sex abuser."
#DisclosuresTribunal OD says that John Wilson had told her that he had heard that this was the case. OH points out that D McCann has never met Wilson. OD says: I did not say that John Wilson had spoken to her.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH suggests OD has no difficulty throwing out allegations about people with whom she's in dispute with. OD rejects this.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH reads out another bullet point in which OD said all hell rained down on Sgt McCabe, including the false rape Tusla referral, after the story of Callinan's penalty points being wiped.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH asks if she has any evidence. OD goes through timeline of events. OD repeats she believes campaign against Sgt McCabe intensified after her story about Callinan's points being wiped. OH calls allegations were wild and baseless.
#DisclosuresTribunal OH asks questions about how she goes about her investigative journalism. OD says her journalism stands for itself
#DisclosuresTribunal Counsel for An Garda Siochana has finished asking questions. Mark Harty for OD now calls up apology from INM to OD. OD is now reading it into the record of the tribunal
#DisclosuresTribunal This is the apology
#DisclosuresTribunal OD says she was told she could continue working at INM if she stopped writing stories about Garda malfeasance but she refused.
#DisclosuresTribunal In final question to Harty, OD said: It's my belief that Paul Williams has a toxic relationship with An Garda Siochana which is very damaging to the public interest
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan SC, for tribunal, says in light of new material which has come into possession of the tribunal, he returns to OD's statement to tribunal
#DisclosuresTribunal In it she said: "I told him [McCabe] that certain jouralists were attempting to interview the alelgated victim [Ms D] and that it was intended by them to publish the story"
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan points out tribunal already knows Debbie McCann, Eavan Murray and Paul Williams went to D house. M asks OD if she can name any others, OD says she's not aware of any other journalists.
#DisclosuresTribunal Alison O'Reilly, of the Irish Daily Mail, is now giving evidence. She's now speaking about her career.
#DisclosuresTirbunal AOR says she thought long and hard about making statement to tribunal and then she did on June 7 2017. [NOTE, Part of AOR statement is here…
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR statement: Towards end of 2013 and early 2014 my colelague with the IMOS DMcC told me that the Garda whistlblower Sgt McCabe who had lifted the lid on the penalty points scandal was a child abuser
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR recalling how she was having a cup of tea with McCann in kitchen of Mail offices. AOR claims MCann said she had penalty points quashed and she was worried this was going to get out - as her father was a guard. [at time stories of pp quashing were out]
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR saying the conversation went to Maurice McCAbe AOR:
"She said he abused a child that's now an adult, everybody knows it, all the guards know."
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR said she was suspicious from the off. She wondered why a whistleblower would lift lid on matters if this had happened. She said she mentioned it to another colleague and her mind was put at ease.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR now talking about when McCann got Ms D's name and address. AOR claims McCann told her she got the info from gardai. AOR: She said she heard it from Dave Taylor, she said she heard it from Noirin O'Sullivan..we had numerous conversations about it..
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR now talking about the Roma children matter from Oct 2013. After children were returned to their home, AOR says McCann and her had heated phone chat at that time and AOR claims McCann made derogatory comments about the Roma children
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR claims the Roma children story upset her. AOR says she said to McCann she was wrong about McCabe story too. AOR says McCann said no, Dave Taylor said that that girl [Ms D] was in a bad way.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR talking about when McCann and Mail colleagues discussed Ms D and the idea of writing a story on it. AOR says there was a conversation going on with editors and she joined it and asked if they were sure.
#DisclosuresTribunal [This would have been Jan/Feb 2014]
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan asking AOR what facts McCann had at this time when she was discussing the matter with her editors. AOR says: I just heard...Debbie told me that Sgt McCabe was a child abuser and that this girl was in a particularly bad way...
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] 'and she'd heard that from Dave Taylor and she believed it, Debbie belived it. And she seemed to have been very moved emotionally by this girl's story. I don't know anything about the girl but I can only tell you what Debbie said...'
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] '...she just seemed very, very annoyed with Maurice McCabe for damaging this girl'
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR explains she then got a contact number of John Wilson and they met outside a pub in Virginia and sat in a car and talked. AOR says she asked JW if McCabe was a paedophile or not. AOR: He was the story, he was the accused in land of rumours.
#DisclosuresTribunal John said he absolutely did not. AOR said JW then rang McCabe in the car at that point and they went to McCabe's house [NOTE: AOR has said she told her news editor she was going up to meet JW before she went up]
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR also saying that Debbie told her that there had been a "cover-up" in relation to the Ms D allegation and McCabe
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR confirms that she thinks she told John Wilson McCann's name that day. Marrinan points out this filtered down to Gemma O'Doherty. AOR agrees.
#DisclosuresTribunal In relation to visit to Sgt McCabe's house, AOR: I felt that he was very distressed when I met him. He didn't look ok but he was able to converse with me.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says she asked McCabe if she would do a story on the smear campaign and he said "no way"
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says she told her news editor Robert Cox and McCann that she had met McCabe
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says she felt McCann was being used and by using her, the Irish Mail on Sunday was being used. AOR said she just shared what Maurice McCabe told her but she had no proof save for his word.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says she doesn't know if McCann went to Ms D's house before or after she went to McCabe's house. But AOR says McCann told her that she had met McCann for an hour and that Ms D was physically shaking when telling McCann the story
#DisclosuresTribunal [NOTE: Tribunal has previously been told McC was turned away from the door of the D family by Mrs D and that she DIDN"T interview her]
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says McCann told her Ms D told her about the allegation and that she was damaged by the whole thing. AOR said McCann said Ms D forgot about the incident but it all came flooding back. AOR: Debbie said they [McCabe and Mr D] had fallen out at some stage.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR said McCann was believable. AOR: Why would she be telling me something else.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR: I was thinking maybe I got this wrong...she seemed to have all this information and it felt like the story was building and building..I thought maybe Sgt McCabe was going to be arrested here, I don't know.
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan now pointing out that Ms D has told tribunal that only person she told her story to is Paul Williams. Marrinan suggests McCann was telling AOR a yarn. AOR suggests McCann was either being untruthful then or is being untruthful now.
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan points out that AOR claims McCann told her specific details - that Ms D held her arms on opposite end of settee when McCann allegedly interviewer her. AOR repeats McCann was totally believable.
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan asks if it was usual for McCann to spin yarns. AOR says she doesn't know. Marrinan suggests it's an entire invention. AOR says it appears so but it's her clear recollection of what McCann said.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR claims McCann told her that the story was not going to make it into the Irish Mail on Sunday and Debbie was very annoyed about this. AOR says she had spoke to Robert Cox and editor Conor O'Donnell about it - but Sebastian Hamilton stopped it.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR now recalling a chat she had with McCann in which she claims McCann was saying the story was true and was saying Ms D was to meet/meeting Micheal Martin. AOR said she asked McCann: Where is this coming from? your pal, Noirin?. AOR claims McC said: yes.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR said when she saw Williams articles she thought Sgt McCabe was going to get arrested and thought she [AOR] was wrong. AOR also says McCan told her that the Ms D allegation didn't go on Pulse.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR claims she asked her ed Robert Cox if she could write something positive about the Garda whistleblowers. AOR says he said no and that he didn't want any neg stories about gardai because it would "piss off the gardai and they'd stop giving Debbie stories"
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan says AOR has given texts to the tribunal to the effect that McCann texted her saying the Sean Guerin report was "gross". Guerin report was published on May 6, 2014.
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan also mentioned that a text said everyone from politicians to journalists knew this and it was a "pantomime". Marrinan says these texts will be shown to the tribunal after lunch.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says she worked with Paul Williams before in News of the World. AOR says she thinks McCann knew Paul Williams. AOR says she knows Eavan Murray (Irish Sun) but doesn't think McCann and EM are very pally. But says journalists meet each other all the time..
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan asks if journalists share details with each other. AOR says she finds most journalists have goodwill among each other and help each other but they'll keep exclusives to themselves.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says after NOS was officially appointed Commissioner, she was encouraging McCann to get a sit-down interview with NOS as she knew her. AOR says McCann had her mobile number and McCann told her this
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says McCann told AOR that she had to put the request for an interview through the Garda Press Office.
#DIsclosuresTribunal Text sent from AOR to McCann after Guerin report says it found McCabe in high regard. Tribunal sees reply from McC to AOR: "I am fully aware. And to be honest I think it's gross. There is a very messed up girl at the heart of it and no one gives a fuck
#DisclosuresTribunal sees another text from McCann to AOR saying: "...It's a farce. Everyone knows, from politicians, to cops, to journos. It's a fucking pantomime."
#DisclosuresTribunal M asks if she thought Taylor was behind McCann's understanding. AOR says she didn't know - other than McCann saying Taylor told her Ms D was in a bad way [NOTE: Trib has heard Taylor say he wouldn't have told McCann this as he didn't have details about Ms D]
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan tells tribunal that McCann doesn't deny the content of the conversations that AOR claims to have had with her.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR is going through how she came to speak to the Labour leader Brendan Howlin in 2017. AOR said she'd heard about Taylor, slurs and smears against McCabe. Said she heard NOS on radio saying she had no knowledge of any smear campaign..
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says she knew what Debbie told her about Taylor, her dad and NOS. AOR says spoke to a friend and then he suggested she talk to Brendan Howlin. She did, Howlin gave speech in Dail
#DisclosuresTribunal In her statement to tribunal, AOR said she told Howlin that McCann had told her (AOR) that NOS and Taylor had told McCann that McCabe was a child abuser.
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] In AOR statement AOR said she told Howlin that McCann told her she had NOS phone number, that she was allowed to go to the Ms D house to interview her and that McCann said terrible things about McCabe and that she got info from gardai.
#DisclosuresTribunal [cntd] In AOR statement, she said Howlin said to her: but that is only third party information" and AOR confirmed that was the case.
#DisclosuresTribunal Howlin, in stmt, said AOR had identified to him she had "direct knowledge". Howlin then clarified this to tribunal. In second statement to tribunal, Howlin told tribunal that his and McCann's statement are "consistent in their accounts" AOR agrees with this.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR does say she was upset that Howlin contacted the tribunal without telling her first. But she says in fullness of time, after other more important events happen in life, it doesn't matter. Says she believes he was trying to help Sgt McCabe
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR also says that she believes she would be here before the tribunal regardless because she heard things that upset her
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan now going to statement of Debbie McCann to the tribunal. Reads out bit where AOR's claims are put to McCann.
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan reads out McCann's response. (It was previously read out to tribunal)
#DisclosuresTribunal Marrinan goes to another section in which she details her visit to D house. Also previously read out...
#DisclosuresTribunal [Cntd] [NOTE: AOR says she wouldn't have called what she was hearing "murmurings"
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says this account is completely at variance with what McCann told her. [AOR claims McCann told her she spoke to Ms D for an hour and was physically shaking during i/v. AOR also says she'd like "one of those business cards, I don't remember us having them"
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell, for Sgt McCabe, asking AOR about her account of what McCann said. McDowell asking if it would be possible that McCann saw a video [Paul Williams videoed an interview with Ms D] but AOR says no.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR tells McDowell that she never heard McCann tell anyone in IMOS that she had been to D house and was turned away. AOR says McCann told her that her father [John McCann] had confirmed the story but AOR didn't ask her of any details.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell going back to the text that AOR sent to McCAnn after Sean Guerin report: "A highly respected officer held high in high regard' is how judge [sic] Guerin describes McCabe..."
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell reads out McCann's response (see earlier tweet). AOR thinks McCann's response shows how moved she was by the Ms D story.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell reads out the other text mentioned earlier about everyone knowing, it being a farce and a pantomime.
#DisclosuresTribunal McDowell reading out another text in which McCann told AOR NOS would be fab as commissioner...and that she feels for Calinan "what a way for his career to end".
#DisclosuresTribunal It added: "The tapes thing is one big feckin smoke screen designed to save political face. And at what cost? Justice will be the biggest loser if the govt continues the way it is going. It's disgusting."
#DisclosuresTribunal Barrister for McCann now questioning AOR.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR tells Hugh Mohan SC McCann is a very good journalist and a nice person
#DisclosuresTribunal Mohan puts to AOR she had a hunch that McCabe was innocent. Mohan outlines how she went up to John Wilson.
#DisclosuresTribunal Mohan: You weren't meant to do solo run but you went to McCabe's house and then IMOS said they wouldn't run a story. AOR says no it was never a story (for her). AOR prev said she went to JW to clarify the rumour. But she did ask to do pos story on w/blowers
#DisclosuresTirbunal Mohan arguing that AOR's timeline is incorrect. Mohan argues that everything AOR put in her statement was in public domain before she gave statement. AOR repeats she has very clear memory of what McCann told her.
#DisclosuresTribunal Mohan says McCann's evidence is that she never had this conversation about interviewing Ms D with AOR. AOR says she can only tell the judge what McCann told her.
#DisclosuresTribunal Mohan argues that the info she gave Howlin was "explosive". AOR says she would call it "very important". She accepts she told Howlin the Taylor and NOS details. Mohan asks why she requested anonymity, she said she had a difficult year in Mail before that.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR says two pages after Howlin said what he said in the Dail, editor Sebastian Hamilton wrote a two-page spread on why it was good of Howlin to do what he did. AOR says she doesn't think he would have done that, had he known it was about two Mail journalists
#DisclosureTribunal Mohan saying that Michael Keeley, solicitor with Mail, had a meeting with Mail journalists and wrote up an account of this meeting. Tribunal sees letter in which Keeley says AOR told him she wasn't Howlin's source and hadn't spoken to Howlin.
#DisclosuresTribunal Keeley's letter said AOR didn't correct it.
#DisclosuresTribunal AOR tells tribunal she had meeting with Keeley and she was about to tell him she did speak to Howlin but K put up his hand and said he didn't want to know. AOR says she felt threatened. AOR claims K said "You know nobody comes out of a tribunal looking ok"
#DisclosuresTribunal Mohan asking AOR to accept that she lied to Keeley. AOR accepts she didn't tell him she was Howlin's source. AOR says she was scared at the time.
#DisclosuresTribunal saw a letter from AOR to Keeley in which she said she never thought Howlin was talking about her as his source (in the Dail) because he said he talked to other people about the issue.
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