Thread by @travisdon1981

Did #Triceratops use its #horns for #defense???

Um, #YES, and here is why:

Like most people, I was fascinated with dinosaurs as a kid. Heck, I still am, having 6 books and about 20 or so documentaries on them at home. I have a fascination with these scaled and feathered giants of old, those titans of horn and fang that dominated the earth before God

silenced their roars with a meteor 65 million years ago. Such realities are the stuff from which folklore, mythology and fantasy can derive, a true tale that can spawn the tall tales of tomorrow.

And such tall tales are not the purview of fiction novels.

Now and again,

some academics will make unusual and startling statements that are just downright wrong. Whether its some doctors saying that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS, or others that claim that Vaccines cause autism, or the scant few historians who deny that Jesus existed, now and again you’ll

find well educated individuals who state things that are not in agreement with the facts or the consensus in their fields. Paleontology is not different.

"Dinosaurs Decoded" is a good case in point.

Dinosaurs Decoded is a National Geographic documentary which has Jack Horner, the legendary paleontologist, making the case that many dinosaurs species are in reality the juvenile forms of other species. For example, dracorex and stygimoloch (the first two dinosaurs in the

pictures below), according to Horner, may very well be juvenile forms of pachycephalosaurus (pictured on the bottom right). This is a startling idea, and Jack Horner does make a

powerful case that many dinosaurs species that we have on the books may very well be bogus, simply young individuals of other species. Later, he shows how Triceratops went through very remarkable changes from newborn to adult. During its adolescence, its horns actually curved

upwards, not being a suitable for defense as those of an adult (which shouldn’t be a surprise. The horns of adolescent animals are not as big or as damaging as those of an adult anyway). Thus, we could see how easy it could be to mistake a adolescent triceratops for a new species

of dinosaur.

In this regard, Jack Horner may be right. Its quite possible that some of our dinosaur species are in reality bunk.

But then he attacks the idea that Triceratops used its horns for defense.

For one, he claims that if it rammed those horns into a T Rex that the latter would fall on Triceratops, killing it with its weight. He also basically said that having a defensive weapon on your head is a bad idea. This was to make his point that Triceratops used its horns and

frill for species recognition, never defense.

Is he right?

Well, there are some serious problems with this idea.
#Debunking #Ahead

1. Triceratops could have backed away after stabbing a T Rex with its horns, thus keeping itself from being killed by a falling T Rex. Indeed, this would be even more the case considering that Triceratops never charged into a T Rex; if it did so, its skull would break (as seen in

the documentary “the Truth About Killer Dinosaurs”). Thus it would instead stand its ground, and when the T Rex got close enough…stab! It would take more time for a Triceratops to back away from something it charged into (which of course, as we’ve seen, it wouldn’t charge

into a T Rex) than it would if it simply stabbed from a standing position. And though Triceratops was dumb as a box of rocks (also seen in said documentary) it wouldn’t be so dumb as to stand still right after stabbing a T Rex with its horns, just as it wouldn’t be dumb enough to

charge a T Rex from a distance.

2. Jack needs to tell Rhinos, Bison, Moose, Elephants, Deer, Cape Buffalo, Wilderbeest and cattle that having defensive weapons on their heads is a bad idea.

Animals have used their heads as defensive weapons since the beginning of time. We have numerous video evidence of the animals listed above using their heads as a defensive weapon against predators. Sometimes the appearance of those weapons, combined with the animal’s size, is

enough to get potential threats to flee. The intimidation factor can be enough.

And, let’s we forget, predators can use their heads as a predatory weapon.

The mouth is a part of the head, and jaw power can be a very effective way of killing prey. Just ask crocodiles, bears,

lions, Hyenas, wolves, etc. The Terror Birds of old used their beaks as killing weapons (and were very similar in design to theropod dinosaurs). Indeed, large predatory dinosaurs used their heads as killing weapons. Carcharodontosaurus, Mapusaurus, Giganotosaurus, Spinosaurus,

these were all huge predators that used their jaws as killing weapons.

So, if weapons on a head are a great design for offense, why can’t they be for defense?

This isn’t to say that using your head in combat is not without serious risks. After all, predatory dinosaurs facing

horned prey could get their eyes poked out or their skulls pierced by horns, and a grizzly could grab a bull’s horns and with a twist paralyze the bull. However, animals often use their heads successfully to kill prey or defend themselves. Even predators will use their killing

jaws as a defensive weapon. Thus, his argument fails.

3. T Rex wasn’t the only carnivore Triceratops had to deal with.

Let’s say, for sake of argument, that Horner is right; that Triceratops wouldn’t use its horns for defense because, if it stabbed a T Rex, it would fall on a Triceratops and kill it (I don’t agree with that. In the vast majority of cases it would have backed away before that

happened, but let’s just use our imagination).

If this would be a problem in using its horns against a T Rex…why would it be a problem in using it horns against a Dakotaraptor?

Dakotaraptor was a giant relative of Velociraptor. At 440 pounds and 16 feet long, it was as heavy as a gorilla but almost as long as a truck. This animal lived at the same time as Triceratops, and was found in Hell Creek Montana, a site that is known for many dinosaur

discoveries, including Triceratops fossils. This animal, by itself, would not have threatened an adult Triceratops (unless it was dying of illness or injury or old age), but it would be a serious threat to a young triceratops. Baby triceratops could be on its menu, as well as

Triceratops eggs, and if a mother triceratops found a Dakotaraptor at her nest or near its young…pity on that Dakotaraptor! She wouldn’t have to worry about its 440 pound bulk falling on her head if she stabbed it; she’d easily flick the sucker off her horns after killing it.

Oh, by the way: what if Dakotaraptor was a pack animal?

Deinonychus, another large relative of Velociraptor, could, in a pack, take down a Tenontosaurus, a dinosaur which was 21-23 feet long and weighed anywhere from 1800 to 4000 pounds, depending on what source you read. We actually have a fossil find of several Deinonychus laying

near the body of a Tenontosaurus, which indicates pack hunting behavior. Gray wolves make similar remarkable kills, taking down Bison (which can weigh over a ton). To put that into perspective, Gray wolves can weigh 130 pounds.

So, of a pack of 150-175 pound Deinonychus can take

down a 1-2 ton Tenontosaurus…
Then a 440-pound Dakotaraptor…

Do the math.

These animals could have been a potential threat to even an adult Triceratops if they moved in packs.

And Triceratops wouldn’t use its horns for defense???

Also, Acheroraptor, a relative of Dakotasaurus, was also a contemporary of Triceratops, living alongside it. Though it

wasn’t big enough to take on an adult Triceratops (10 feet long, 88 pounds), it would nevertheless be a threat to its young, and its eggs.

4. We actually have fossil evidence that they fought.

In the documentary “the Truth about killer dinosaurs” fossil evidence was shown of a

Triceratops which had not only fought a T Rex, but had survived. One of its horn’s had been bitten off near its end, and its frill had likewise been bitten into.

And yet…it had healed.

Yes way.

Thus, this Triceratops fought a T Rex and survived.

And its horns had obviously gotten in the way of the T Rex’s jaws.

#Case #Closed.

Sources:

“Dinosaurs Decoded” National Geographic Documentary (2009)
“the Truth About Killer Dinosaurs” BBC Documentary, Episode 1 (2005).
birminghammuseums.org.uk/blog/posts/an-…
livescience.com/24011-tricerat…
scifacts.net/dinosaurs/dein…

books.google.com/books?id=88k1D…
prehistoric-wildlife.com/species/d/dako…
newfieldpress.org/3937/feature/g…

sci-news.com/paleontology/s…
nhm.ac.uk/discover/dino-…
paleontologyworld.com/dinosaurs-–-sp…
carnivora.net/-t1556.html?
“Falcon Pocket Guide: Bison” by Jack Ballard, page 46.

“Smithsonian Institution: Animal” by David Burnie and Don E. Wilson (Editors-In-Chief), 186, 248
“Prehistoric Life” (DK), 339.
“The World Encyclopedia of Dinosaurs and Prehistoric Creatures” by Dougal Dixon, 258, 267.

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