Thread by @BBuchman_CNS

Schiff responds: "My colleagues may think it is okay that the Russians offered dirt on a Democratic candidate as part as what was described as the Russian effort to help the Trump campaign. "

"My colleagues may think it is okay when the president's son was offered a role in the pivotal campaign, he did not call the FBI or refuse the foreign help, no, instead that son said he would "love" that information." - Schiff

"You may think it is okay when the chairman of a presidential campaign offered polling data to someone linked to Russian intelligence - I don't think that's okay," Schiff says of Paul Manafort

"You may say that is all okay, that is just what you need to do to win. I don't think its okay. I think its immoral, unethical, unpatriotic and yes, I think it is corrupt and evidence of collusion. - Schiff

Schiff will not yield to Republicans on the committee, saying they can use their 5 minutes to speak after attacking him when they have their own time.

McFaul is now testifying.

McFaul on Putin: Putin uses oligarch money and intelligence to wage battles at home and abroad. To discuss how to contain or deter "Putinism," he says, we must understand:
- evolution of Putin's gov't at home
- how he exports ideas
- how sanctions work or don't

McFaul says, each term Putin serves (he is now in his 4th term) he becomes more autocratic over time. "Russian intelligence officers today play a much greater role in ruling Russia than the KGB ever played during the Soviet Union."

The growing arbitrary and pernicious role of the state in the Russian economy has stifled economic growth; to justify this, Putin needs an external enemy, - Michael McFaul, former ambassador to Russia

Steven Hall, former CIA Chief of Russian Operations, is now testifying.

Putin uses American affinity for "fair play" against the U.S.; Putin believes in org. crime, runs Russia as a 'crime boss,' Those he finds useful or effective, he rewards, Hall says.

Those who fall out of favor, he punishes. Independent journalists are killed, political opponents are flooded with lawsuits, assassinated or incarcerated.

When Putin knows your net worth, when he knows where your wife, children or mother live, Steven Hall says, he will use that against you.

Putin controls Russia and his oligarchs using a complex system; intel services play a key role in neutralizing threats from inside and out. He uses oligarchs to exert financial pressure; he controls the flow of information.

Putin will have intel services collect intel on any American businessman in which he has an interest, efforts like video surveillance; entrapment and arrest are often used; see Paul Whelan

American business success is not always tainted in Russia, Hall explains but ultimately, success in Russia is often contingent upon what information Putin has and what he is willing to allow based on the kompromat he holds

Heather Conley, senior VP, for foreign policy think tank, Center for Strategic & Int'l Studies up now.

Russia is engaged in "new generation warfare."
"They compete with us where we are most vulnerable by exploiting faith, history, information we read,. They exploit racial tensions, partisanship. They use methods like cyber attacks to do this," Conley says.

Conley quotes Putin’s advisor Vladislav Surkov: "Foreign politicians talk about Russian interference in elections around the world, in fact the matter is even more serious. Russia interferes in your brain and there is nothing you can do about it."

Eric Lorber, senior director for nat sec think tank, Foundation for Defense of Democracies, now testifying. Will focus on sanctions and how effective - or ineffective - they may be.

Combating money laundering is critical; and while easy to screen customers and run basic protocols, The real work to make programs effective takes place when conducting investigations into the unmasking of the "ultimate beneficial owners" of these companies.

Foreign adversaries can use anonymous companies to undermine efficacy of important laws like Foreign Agent Registration Act, Lorber says.
FARA, FARA, hmmm..where have I heard that...Oh, right, Paul Manafort could tell us a lot about FARA, probably.

FinCEN, or the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, an offshoot of the Treasury, must report "Russian red flags," seen across the financial spectrum Lorber says. Congress should also issue an advisory detailing the red flags associated with illicit Russian funding.

Now we're back to Steven Hall, who is talking kompromat. This method is very old, it is very easy. Whenever someone of interest goes to Russia, information is collected. It can be stored for later use or used immediately. Same goes for financial information.

Whether its financial information, business information - "different things motivate different human beings,"
They'll collect information on all of those things to get people to do what they want, Hall says.

That entanglement absolutely comes through money laundering operations, Hall says.

Schiff then asks McFaul: If a presidential candidate might have been after a real estate deal in Moscow, would Putin have known?

McFaul responds - he doesn't know, he cant speak to that specifically but historically businessmen seeking any deal over $1B must have direct approval from the Kremlin.

The state is at the center of everything and when millions and millions are involved, you have to the Kremlin involved, McFaul says.

Heather Conley: Russia's tactics are always changing and adapting. The sanctions package passed two years ago may not be sufficient today.

Rep Nunes is up and reminds McFaul he is under oath and that if he were to lie, it is a crime.

Nunes is asking if McFaul has met or spoken with: Kislyak, Igor Sechin, Bill Browder, Natalia Veselnitskaya; Glenn Simpson, Nellie Ohr, Bruce Ohr, Jonathan M. Winer; Christopher Steele, Benjamin Wittes; Michael R. Isikoff

McFaul says no to all, only knew Winer in passing because they were on a list of men Putin wanted arrested

Nunes asked how McFaul knew Carter Page was going to be in Russia for the New Economic School at the World commencement address; McFaul said he read it in Russian press.

Nunes asking when McFaul first saw the dossier - McFaul says he only first saw it in BuzzFeed.

Nunes fishing expedition didn't go very well.

Rep Conaway is back up. I hope he turned his phone off this time. It went off when he was asking Schiff to resign earlier. He appeared very flustered by it.

Conaway says he doesn't mean to be "impolite" but he still thinks Schiff should resign, then abruptly transitions to questions about the Nord Stream 2 Russia-Germany pipeline and the financing involved with the project.

Conley urges Congress to urge EU to stay away from the Nord Stream. McFaul chimes in, says the project will only increase their dependence on Russia and is ultimately aimed at weakening Ukraine.

Steven Hall fielded questions about whether any oligarchs would/could refuse Putin; Hall says its hard to understand, because Putin is a former operative himself and keeps methods largely murky. He also plays oligarchs against each other to see what the best path forward is.

Rep Turner: When Sen. Joe McCarthy walked these halls, ppl in this nation were transfixed but also appalled.
Now he's asking for Schiff's resignation too because "he's abused" the committee, misrepresented information received in classified sessions.

Accuses Schiff of being a McCarthyite, says he has shown contempt for members of congress. Attacked his fellow lawmakers motives and works. Has made staff "prosecutorial."
Calls Schiff's chairmanship of the committee a danger to national security.

Rep Turner asks if McCarthyism advanced Russia's communistic goals to hinder democracy? Did McCarthyism shackle us, he asks the committee:
Conley says: I'm not the best placed witness.
McFaul: I do think polarization in our society advances Putin national interest.

We are on a brief recess. Stay tuned.

We are back.

Rep Wenstrup: "We've had morality defined to us today. I think its immoral for a campaign party to pay a British agent and Russians for a dossier, to create an unverified salacious document against the opposing candidate."
Wenstrup calls for hearings on "FISA abuses" and dossier

"I don't know how we get back together as a nation if we don't address the truth or have true justice & have America know what actually took place." - Rep. Wenstrup, R-Ohio.

What do you think folks? Any ideas on how we can figure that out? Let him know:
wenstrup.house.gov/contact/

McFaul then says look, Putin is a national security threat. We can't pretend that when Putin plays these games or "attacks" America, it will just hurt Republicans or just Democrats.

Do sanctions actually work, though?
McFaul says yes, broadly and on the individual level.
The goal for the U.S. is to change Putin's behavior, that's why sanctions are put in place.

"But sometimes you just have to do the right thing, even if you know you aren't going to change behavior. If Russia annexes territory in Crimea and we do nothing, that encourages him to do more. " - McFaul

Putin very rationally wants to lift sanctions, if I were president of Russia, I'd want to reduce that burden. But rather than changing his own behavior, he is waiting for other governments to change. It would be a "cataclysmic" mistake to lift Sanctions on Putin, McFaul says.

Utah Republican Rep Chris Stewart also calling for Schiff resignation, saying Schiff wrongly accused Trump of treason and says he doesn't know how Schiff can believe that POTUS committed treason yet won't lead efforts to impeach.

The original assertion by the admin. was "no interference whatsoever" but when the weight of the entire intel community came down, the response was "well, there may have been interference but it was the other candidate" Then it turned into "no collusion." - Rep Denny Heck

And now, lawmakers sit redefining terms like collusion, obstruction etc, Heck laments.

In a unanimous challenge Thursday to their committee’s Democratic chair, all nine Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee demanded the immediate resignation of Representative Adam Schiff.
Story developing: courthousenews.com/clinging-to-co…
@CourthouseNews

Schiff says US should be very clear about condemning malign Russian activity. Separately, none of today's experts say they have reason to doubt the intelligence community's findings and concerns over Russian interference in 2016 election.

Sidebar: This hearing would have been much more effective if the Mueller Report was published for the world to see.

All of the Republicans that were here, calling for Schiff to resign, have left the committee hearing. The hearing was about malign Russian activity, so a little more involved than Schiff, but OK.

Rep. Sean Maloney asks McFaul what are the top things US should do now that it isn't doing.
-Cyber security for electoral infrastructure
-Voter rolls: "Putin doesn't need to steal 78k votes, he just needs a few thousand people to show up to vote and their name isn't on the roll"

(Continued) "...and then there's camera crews and that event undermines the integrity of the election."
Also needed:
- Basic "cyber hygiene" for those who work on campaigns, see dual authentication

- "De-amplifying" what happens on social media platforms of these campaigns, McFaul: "Notice I didn't say ban them. That;s much more difficult."
FB, for example, may say, "We didn't know there were bad actors on our platform, " and that may be true in some regard

"But we have to discus what third party is involved" in the review process at places like FB

Rep Jim Himes, D-CT. is up. "History will clarify what has happened... but if my Republican colleagues are betting that the chairman will play the role of Joseph McCarthy in the historical interpretation rather than a president who...

"regularly calls the press 'the enemy of the people,' regularly attacks the DOJ and CIA, or discredits them when it doesn't match his interests; who says there are very fine people on both sides of a Nazi march in Charlottesville. if that's there bet, then I wouldn't take it."

Himes looks for solutions, more on those Russian red flags - The US should propagate idea that if financing is secured from a Russian entity, the person should be aware it may come with expectations from Putin, at the very least.

Panelist Steven Hall then stresses it is not that all contacts with banks in Russia end up being compromised, but they could be at any moment "from a call from the Kremlin.

How engaged is Putin in real estate schemes happening under his nose in Moscow?
McFaul says he can't say for certain but in his interactions with Putin over the years when accompanying Obama, he saw Putin as a very "detailed" man and thinks he would be "acutely" aware.

Rep Speier: If a # of LLCs are created in the US and operating in Russia or preparing to, does Putin know about it?
Panelists agree it is possible - it depends on how high profile the entity is.

McFaul: There are a lot of other actors copying the Putin playbook now, including domestic actors.
This prompted Schiff to talk about deep fake technology, the concern is exponentially high, he says.

"Putin doesn't need to even hack our election infrastructure," he says, They could just push out content like deep fake technology and upend the process.

"We need the public to be more critical of what they learn on social media. This needs to be a comprehensive effort." - Rep Schiff says as he closes out today's hearing

With the hearing adjourned, my live-tweeting concludes. Thanks for joining me. Story for @CourthouseNews will update.
courthousenews.com/clinging-to-co…