1/25
On Thurs 10 May @Jacob_Rees_Mogg appeared on @daily_politics alongside Lord Hennessy and @Alison_McGovern. @Jo_Coburn asked him about food prices. See clip.
Two things to pick up on
1. JRM's claim about a 10-year FTA negotiation window.
2. The price of steak (£22.06/kg)
On Thurs 10 May @Jacob_Rees_Mogg appeared on @daily_politics alongside Lord Hennessy and @Alison_McGovern. @Jo_Coburn asked him about food prices. See clip.
Two things to pick up on
1. JRM's claim about a 10-year FTA negotiation window.
2. The price of steak (£22.06/kg)
2/25
JRM says "If you are in negotiation for a free trade agreement, you can maintain your existing standards for 10-years under WTO rules. So we have 10 years from the point at which we leave the EU to negotiate a FTA which would mean we could carry on with our zero tariffs."
JRM says "If you are in negotiation for a free trade agreement, you can maintain your existing standards for 10-years under WTO rules. So we have 10 years from the point at which we leave the EU to negotiate a FTA which would mean we could carry on with our zero tariffs."
3/25
IANAL but I think JRM is labouring under a misapprehension
It seems he's referring to this "understanding" in an Ad Art to GATT Article XXIV, para 5.
It says that the "reasonable length of time" from Article XXIV should not normally exceed 10 yrs.
wto.org/english/tratop…
IANAL but I think JRM is labouring under a misapprehension
It seems he's referring to this "understanding" in an Ad Art to GATT Article XXIV, para 5.
It says that the "reasonable length of time" from Article XXIV should not normally exceed 10 yrs.
wto.org/english/tratop…
4/25
GATT is the agreement that governs international trade under the WTO. Art XXIV covers Customs Unions and Free Trade Areas which are exceptions to the Most Favoured Nation rule. This MFN rule that states that members must treat other members equally. wto.org/english/docs_e…
GATT is the agreement that governs international trade under the WTO. Art XXIV covers Customs Unions and Free Trade Areas which are exceptions to the Most Favoured Nation rule. This MFN rule that states that members must treat other members equally. wto.org/english/docs_e…
5/25
The "reasonable length of time" from Art XXIV is in para 5 sub-para c and refers back to sub-paras a & b on the formation of Customs Unions and Free Trade Areas respectively.
My interpretation of these paragraphs, is that is's about an interim arrangements of a new FTA/CU.
The "reasonable length of time" from Art XXIV is in para 5 sub-para c and refers back to sub-paras a & b on the formation of Customs Unions and Free Trade Areas respectively.
My interpretation of these paragraphs, is that is's about an interim arrangements of a new FTA/CU.
6/25
It's got nothing to do with any previously existing arrangement.
It's surely about a sensible limit to the delay between interim agreement becoming a firm agreement, and it's conditions applying during that period.
Is he referring conditions in Article XXIV:5(b)?
It's got nothing to do with any previously existing arrangement.
It's surely about a sensible limit to the delay between interim agreement becoming a firm agreement, and it's conditions applying during that period.
Is he referring conditions in Article XXIV:5(b)?
7/25
If I understand correctly, Article XXIV:5(b) says that any new FTA, should not disfavour any 3rd party country ( i.e. not party to the FTA) by imposing higher duties on that 3rd party than previously existed.
In short, I think Jacob Rees-Mogg is completely wrong on this.
If I understand correctly, Article XXIV:5(b) says that any new FTA, should not disfavour any 3rd party country ( i.e. not party to the FTA) by imposing higher duties on that 3rd party than previously existed.
In short, I think Jacob Rees-Mogg is completely wrong on this.
8/25
The other thing I wanted to pick up on was the claim about the price of sirloin streak at £22.06/kg compared to US £12.67.
Now JRM is not really to blame here. He's quoting the @LordsEUCom's 14th report on food prices, and evidence from @timgbenton
publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ld…
The other thing I wanted to pick up on was the claim about the price of sirloin streak at £22.06/kg compared to US £12.67.
Now JRM is not really to blame here. He's quoting the @LordsEUCom's 14th report on food prices, and evidence from @timgbenton
publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201719/ld…
9/25
Firstly, did no-one bother to check whether we're talking about are actually equivalent products? Was no-one aware that the American cuts of beef are different to British ones?
Sirloin over in the UK and sirloin in the USA are not he same thing at all.
Firstly, did no-one bother to check whether we're talking about are actually equivalent products? Was no-one aware that the American cuts of beef are different to British ones?
Sirloin over in the UK and sirloin in the USA are not he same thing at all.
10/25
The Wikipedia article says that what they call sirloin is what we call rump and that our sirloin is their short loin. However, I went and spoke to a butcher yesterday and he said it wasn't as simple as that, the different cuts are not analogous.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_of_be…
The Wikipedia article says that what they call sirloin is what we call rump and that our sirloin is their short loin. However, I went and spoke to a butcher yesterday and he said it wasn't as simple as that, the different cuts are not analogous.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_of_be…
11/25
You can see where Prof Benton got the £22.06 figure from. It's from the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) website. £22.08/kg today.
In the UK sirloin is an expensive cut of beef, second only to fillet steak.
Rump at £14.87/kg
beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/markets/indust…
You can see where Prof Benton got the £22.06 figure from. It's from the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) website. £22.08/kg today.
In the UK sirloin is an expensive cut of beef, second only to fillet steak.
Rump at £14.87/kg
beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/markets/indust…
12/25
What about the USA?
I found this page on wholesale prices of beef. Important Note: it's the wholesale price, not retail and it's in $ per lb, not kilos!
The important thing though is that It shows sirloin as the cheapest cut from the lion area.
data.beefretail.org/wholesale/Larg…
What about the USA?
I found this page on wholesale prices of beef. Important Note: it's the wholesale price, not retail and it's in $ per lb, not kilos!
The important thing though is that It shows sirloin as the cheapest cut from the lion area.
data.beefretail.org/wholesale/Larg…
13/25
So we're not talking about the same thing at all.
But what about the UK prices? Is £22.06 fair?
Didn't anyone bother to go to a few supermarkets and check what the actual prices were? It's not that hard. I managed it yesterday lunchtime looking at the price in Brighton.
So we're not talking about the same thing at all.
But what about the UK prices? Is £22.06 fair?
Didn't anyone bother to go to a few supermarkets and check what the actual prices were? It's not that hard. I managed it yesterday lunchtime looking at the price in Brighton.
14/25
First up here's Sainsbury's 21-day matured sirloin at £19.11/kg. That's below the average given of £22.06/kg
First up here's Sainsbury's 21-day matured sirloin at £19.11/kg. That's below the average given of £22.06/kg
15/25
For reference I looked at rump steak too. £12.44 per kilo in Sainsbury's again cheaper than the AHDB price.
For reference I looked at rump steak too. £12.44 per kilo in Sainsbury's again cheaper than the AHDB price.
16/25
Next I went to a butcher's. Unfortunately he didn't have any tickets out for sirloin steak, but he told me he was selling it as £17.99 per kilo.
He had loads of rump steak though at £7.99 per kilo, that's below the AHDB minimum price (£8.80) in their range for rump steak!
Next I went to a butcher's. Unfortunately he didn't have any tickets out for sirloin steak, but he told me he was selling it as £17.99 per kilo.
He had loads of rump steak though at £7.99 per kilo, that's below the AHDB minimum price (£8.80) in their range for rump steak!
17/25
Next I went to the Co-op.
They were all out of steak (it's a bit crap there to be honest), but the tickets were still on display. I have to say though there pricing strategy seems a bit off. £17.62/kg (above AHDB average) for rump steak and £19.82 for rib-eye and sirloin?
Next I went to the Co-op.
They were all out of steak (it's a bit crap there to be honest), but the tickets were still on display. I have to say though there pricing strategy seems a bit off. £17.62/kg (above AHDB average) for rump steak and £19.82 for rib-eye and sirloin?
18/25
Next I went to Iceland.
£17.65/kg for 21-day mature sirloin. Rump at £13.22/kg, That's the best price so far for sirloin, though the butcher's still killing it on the rump steak.
Next I went to Iceland.
£17.65/kg for 21-day mature sirloin. Rump at £13.22/kg, That's the best price so far for sirloin, though the butcher's still killing it on the rump steak.
19/25
Lastly I went to Aldi. Oh boy!
21-day matured sirloin steak at £13.28 per kilo! That's 60% of the AHDB average price and get this -
Crucially it's £2 BELOW the minimum in their range (£15.49/kg). Hey @AHDB_BeefLamb Where are you getting your price ranges from?
Lastly I went to Aldi. Oh boy!
21-day matured sirloin steak at £13.28 per kilo! That's 60% of the AHDB average price and get this -
Crucially it's £2 BELOW the minimum in their range (£15.49/kg). Hey @AHDB_BeefLamb Where are you getting your price ranges from?
20/25
Here's Aldi's 21-day matured rump steak at £10.30 a kilo.
Here's Aldi's 21-day matured rump steak at £10.30 a kilo.
21/25
Aldi seems like the place to go for cheap steak. Although obviously I can't speak for the quality of the steak here, but then neither did the report.
They also had 28-day matured rump at £11.73/kilo although it would have been £12.90/kilo before the special offer.
Aldi seems like the place to go for cheap steak. Although obviously I can't speak for the quality of the steak here, but then neither did the report.
They also had 28-day matured rump at £11.73/kilo although it would have been £12.90/kilo before the special offer.
22/25
The 28-day matured sirloin is Aldi was only £14.76 per kilo.
The 28-day matured sirloin is Aldi was only £14.76 per kilo.
23/25
And finally from Aldi, what's this?
Sirloin steak, dry-aged on the bone, for 21-days with Himalayan Salt, then further matured to 30 days (yes 30 days). From cattle sired from Pedigree Aberdeen Angus bulls (half AA?). Bronze winner 2017 Word Steak Challenge.
£19.78/kilo!
And finally from Aldi, what's this?
Sirloin steak, dry-aged on the bone, for 21-days with Himalayan Salt, then further matured to 30 days (yes 30 days). From cattle sired from Pedigree Aberdeen Angus bulls (half AA?). Bronze winner 2017 Word Steak Challenge.
£19.78/kilo!
24/25
So not once did I find any sirloin steak above the average price quoted in the report.
Furthermore all of these steaks are probably a better cut than what's labelled as sirloin in the US.
Why can't people, the media or Parliament, anyone, do proper fact-checking?
So not once did I find any sirloin steak above the average price quoted in the report.
Furthermore all of these steaks are probably a better cut than what's labelled as sirloin in the US.
Why can't people, the media or Parliament, anyone, do proper fact-checking?
25/25
I did a thread yesterday about this subject (i.e steak prices). It has some further information, but I wasn't able to add the prices I checked out for myself. There is some duplication but it might be worth reading if you haven't already.
/END
I did a thread yesterday about this subject (i.e steak prices). It has some further information, but I wasn't able to add the prices I checked out for myself. There is some duplication but it might be worth reading if you haven't already.
/END
