Thread by @shayshinecastle

Yo, yo, yo, #Boulder, we're 10 min away from the first *full* council meeting since summer break. And I do mean full: We've got CU South flood stuff, Hogan Pancost, appointments to Housing and Open Space boards, and a consideration of possible vaping regulations.

Some background on Hogan Pancost: boulderbeat.news/2019/07/13/des…

CU South is pretty much where council left it last time. (See story) Tonight they'll be discussing two workarounds to get CU on board: either redrawing land use maps or shrinking the size of the detention pond boulderbeat.news/2019/06/08/wit…

It is FULL.

What is becoming a regular announcement: Boulder still has seats on three boards and commissions: Two Boulder Junction ones and Uni Hill. Property owners needed.

An agenda change: The vaping issue is being moved up, per citizen request.

We're in open comment. First speakers is regarding the 5G issue (study session next week). A bunch of these folks are here who are upset with the panel of experts city council put together for that.

Stephan van der Mersch is speaking about a plan to redevelop the Marpa House (891 12th St) Lots of ppl here with yellow "Preserve Marpa" signs.

van der Mersch is ripping into the developer, John Kirkland.

Elizabeth Black (now discussing Colorado Water Law) is quickly becoming my favorite open commenter. Her presentations are always 💯

Honestly, if you want to understand Colorado's water law, this 2-min presentation is the best thing I've seen for it. A++

Joelle Rossback-Dahl is here to talk on vaping. Boulder vape shops sell to minors all the time, she says, including middle-schoolers. "Kids with braces."

She asks for a ban on flavored vape juice, raising the vaping age limit to 21, and for Boulder to license the sale of e-cigarette products, which would help with enforcement when shops sell to minors. Right now, it's a "slap on the wrist," she says.

Shawn Rodda is also speaking on vaping. Her two middle-school age kids report that so many kids in their school (and others) vape. "Not my kids," tho, she says.

Older kids "vouch" for younger ones at vape shops. And kids have "plugs" which are apparently dealers (She looked it up on Urban Dictionary) who work at the shops and knowingly sell to underage kids.

Oh, shit. Susan Conversano saying one of the city's 5G experts has a conflict of interest (I missed what it was, if she said) and shouldn't be on the panel for next week. She has her own expert she'd like to be included instead.

We've got Ginger Tanner, an owner of a vape shop on the Hill. "My products are designed for adults who want to quit smoking (cigarettes), not for minors."

95% of ADULT customers purchase flavor vape liquids, Tanner says. Shop has had 0 violations; the issue is with convenience stores.

Does support a statewide 21-year-old vaping limit. But if Boulder only does it, it will push customers elsewhere. She does support creating licensing for the sale of products. "It's absolutely imperative in our industry."

Young asks how vape shops vs convenience stores different.
Tanner: Convenience stores, liquor stores have repeatedly been dinged for selling to minors. We don't allow ppl under 18 into the store.

I think I'll take this opportunity to share a bit about what the city may consider RE: vaping. Tonight they're doing a Nod of Five, an informal vote, like a show of hands. If they get 5 "nods," staff will pursue vaping regulations.

Here's what that could be: a ban on the sale of flavored vape juice, raising the vaping age limit to 21, and creating a licensing program for ppl who sell e-cigarettes and products.

Here's why they're considering it: “A group of concerned parents has contacted city staff” about e-cig use at BVSD, per the city memo. BVSD has a higher rate of vaping among teens than the state or nation as a whole.

BVSD: 33% use among high schoolers
Colorado: 26.2%
Nat’l: 13.2%

Colorado itself has the highest rate of teen vaping in the nation.

Nationally, 3.62M current teen vape users in 2018
Vape use increased 75% among high school students 2017-2018 (11.7% to 20.8%) and 48% among middle schoolers (3.3% to 4.9%)

81% of current teen users cite availability of appealing flavors as primary reason for use

City Manager Jane Brautigam going over the panel of experts put together for the 5G study session next week. "We feel like we're providing great information for the community." But it's up to council if they want to add more ppl.

Interesting Marpa House stat: It was built as a fraternity in 1923. Many of the folks here protesting its redevelopment specifically mentioned that they don't want it to be student housing bc of drinking, drugs, noise, etc. (It's used as a boarding house today.)

Charles Ferro, a planner, mentions that the city actually hasn't received a plan for the property: just a pre-application for a plan, which is just a list of questions from the property owner.

"Depending on what it is that's proposed, most likely property would have to go through a use review," which would allow Planning Board and/or Council to review the plans.

Morzel asks about options for landmarking as historic preservation.
It's in a potential historic district, Ferro says. "It likely has historic significance and could potentially be eligible." Landmarks board is discussing this Thursday night.

Young: Who does request for landmarking come from?
Ferro: I think it can come from anyone, but it typically comes from the landmarks board through review process.

Yates asking more qs about what would trigger a Use Review process (whereby Planning Board/Council could get a chance to weigh in). Ferro saying that if the redevelopment doesn't create any additional impacts to the neighborhood, it might not go to use review. But thats unusual.

Impacts that will be considered: Visual, increases in traffic, noise, parking, trips, etc. It's all about "consistency with the zoning and neighborhood," Ferro says.

"It's been awhile," since a boarding house has been converted to more typical residential uses, Ferro says, but they have happened before on the Hill.

Brockett: I reached out to BHP about Marpa, and they found potential. But they were told it was under contract.

Encourages residents to contact BHP to work with the current property owner.

Weaver: "If this is currently affordable (housing), preservation is one of the goals we have in the city."

Carlisle requests that the experts that residents want on the 5G panel be added. Nagle, too. "There are ppl out there who are definitely smarter than I am. I'd like to hear from them."

Morzel agrees. "I personally don't see what's the big deal of adding two more ppl to this discussion. We're creating more problems not putting ppl on than adding them."

Weaver: It's about time. (Lisa), you've eloquently argued that our study sessions shouldn't go over 3 hrs: this one is already 3.5. UGGGGGH!

I actually might skip this part of next week's study session and let @CassaMN handle it. Maybe head to a local bar and play a drinking game: Shots for every time someone quotes an illegitimate source.

The 5G issue is scheduled for 90 min.

Carlisle suggests removing one of the experts and substituting them for a resident-suggested one because "we've already heard" what the first expert has to say.

This is about who gets to present. Yates defends leaving in the first expert, who is apparently the city's attorney on this... ? "He's fighting on our behalf" to overturn state and federal preemptions on local control, so it's important to hear from him.

Some argument among council about how much time the experts will be allowed. 5 min is the suggestion, but others saying that is unrealistic.

I agree, given that council has spent 10 just haggling over how many minutes the experts should get.

Carlisle: This came out of the community. I think we can honor them. This issue had its own study session and it got booted into next year.

Brautigam going over the city's racial equity efforts. "Opportunities for improvement" include in hiring and procurement of services.

Apparently things are going so well that Boulder is being held up as a leader by the organization (GARE) it contracted for its equity work. "We feel that among our peer cities, we are a leader," Brautigam says.

Sure, EVERYBODY gets a trophy...

Some interesting things on consent agenda; I'll tweet them in a separate thread.

Council now considering call-ups: city speak for when council decides to review a development project. There are three that may be called up tonight.

Council is not calling any of these up. We're moving to the vaping discussion. It will be quick.

Carr explains what a Nod of Five is: If something requires a lot of work, council gives direction to staff before they undertake it. "Ultimate q for council is do you want to regulate them?" (e-cigs)

Carr: "It's become a crisis in the city's schools."
80% of kids know smoking is bad for them (he says; I'll fact-check that in a min) only 51% of kids know vaping is bad (that's in the council packet)

The actual stat is that 51% of BVSD high school students perceive vaping as risky.

Carr: No state tax on e-cigs; just regular cigarettes. it was proposed but didn't make it through the legislative session.

No idea if state is picking this issue up in the next legislative session, Carr says.

Since price is a significant deterrent to youth users, a tax may be effective.

Banning favored e-cig products (including menthol) would be an "easy lift," Carr says; Aspen already does it.

Raising an age limit would be easy, too. Aspen, Avon, Basalt, Carbondale have raised the age limit to 21 for the purchase of vape products.

Carr: It makes enforcement a little easier. It's a lot harder to use ppl under 18 for undercover police stings.

"Licensing is the best way to control anything, Carr says, bc of enforcement." References Airbnb and other vacation rentals. "The best way to stop someone from doing that is threaten or suspend their license. We found that in alcohol, marijuana and short-term rentals."

The city would need to hire more ppl for this. Carr recommends adding it to the budget for next year. Licensing is self-supporting bc the fees are set to cover the cost, he says.

The county is also concerned about this. They are considering licensing as well. "If we license, a lot of the biz will move" elsewhere, so working with the county will be helpful, Carr says.

Brautigam: Our marijuana licensing is under-staffed right now. We don't have funding that would support staff for this. An extra tax would be "very, very helpful."

"We could do a ballot measure this year," Carr says. It's not that complicated; we have time. "I think this would be a relative no-brainer for the voters."

Carlisle suggests having some of the soda tax cover it. There's a Health Equity Committee that decides how to spend those funds. More than $3M was given out in the last round, per this story I wrote in October. dailycamera.com/2018/10/26/a-t…

Boulder could also restrict where vape shops / places that sell vape stuff can go in the city; for instance, not allowing them near schools. Existing places would be grandfathered in.

OR Boulder could implement its own e-cig tax. Boulder made $289K last year from its share of the state cigarette tax. That money *could* be lost if they tax e-cigs; Carr isn't sure.

If state does an e-cig tax, that $$ could increase for Boulder. So Carr suggests that, if Boulder does its own e-cig tax, it end if/when the state does one.

I should explain why the state $$ could go away: The state shares its cigarette tax with cities/counties. But if a city/county has its own cigarette tax, they forfeit those funds.

Again, this is cigarettes only. NOT e-cigs: No state tax on e-cigs (yet).

Carr: "I think it's worth trying."

Brockett: Let's act sooner rather than later; I have kids in middle and high school. They say it's everywhere. "This is something we should prioritize for the health and safety of our kids."

Nagle: What can we do to encourage BVSD to do something?
Carr: It's one of their highest priorities.
Brockett: We do get messaging from BVSD as parents, pretty regularly.

Jones: We put $$ as a city for substance education for marijuana, meth, alcohol, etc. Can we add this?
Yes, says Kristin Hyser of housing and human services.

Brautigam: It would be through a Request For Proposals for a consultant to work with the school district or something. "Certainly we can use the dollars that way."

Council consensus on: banning the sale of flavored e-cig products
Jones: "We're not committing to a ban; we're committing to exploring one." Staff will research and come back with proposals.

Council also OK with letting staff explore an age limit.

Weaver proposes getting a measure for an e-cig tax on this November ballot, and then incorporating licensing into this budget process (which has already started, but wraps in December).

Yates agrees. Wants to roll zoning restrictions into a licensing program.

Consensus from council.

Young: Could we do a ban now-ish (or sooner) until we get licensing, etc. in place?

Flavor ban and age limit "we could do in the next couple of months," Jones says.

Carr suggests bringing all these things back next month; that's when council has to vote to place ballot measures for the November elections.

Jones: "We're moving fast. Anyone who has got skin in the game who wants to participate..." reach out to, she tells Carr.

That's all for this issue. Gonna start a new thread for Hogan Pancost.

@threadreaderapp please unroll. Thanks!