Thread by @atatimelikethis

A lot is going on in the subject of #trans rights, possibly due to "TERF" Jess Philips charges

Trouble is it's all anger, no discussion of the issues, and lots of good old fashioned bigotry and taking of sides.

Despite labour Brexit, I'm going to risk neutrality - 3 points:

1. Should the rights of trans be as important as any other minority group?

2. Are there legitimate concerns for cis and trans in equality of status versus of identity?

3. The "real woman" flashpoint.
If 1 & 2 are resolved is this actually about philosophy not rights?

If you're with me and I haven't lit the world on fire,

1. Seems easily solved, the sketchiest review of data says trans are attackes, often more deprived and the victims of sniping by many agendas
I can't see any argument against establishing firm trans rights in law beyond GRA

From here on I'm mostly going to talk about M2F trans because that's the area that attracts most heated anger.

This isn't to ignore F2M, but just to acknowledge there is no male lobby arguing against them...or criticising access to "male spaces"

2. And that's the issue here - 2 seems always to descend into toilet access, or the arguments in 3. The toilet stuff superficially smacks of gay changing room prejudice but it's more complex.

For trans there's legitimacy in the equality of identity question. AND safety.

For cis there's a question of the relative strength of early stage male to female trans women that is in conflict with traditional views of protections women deserve against oppressive men

And tabloid headline cases like trans rape in jail wildly over stating risk and incidence

The trans case for access to female spaces is justified

Icidence of male attacks on M2F trans is higher than male on women crime so if there's a case to separate genders based on risk, it would seem the case is there for M2F trans.

So what risks do cis face if that is allowed?

It's harder to make the cis case. And impossible on twitter. So instead read this excellent discussion on why ultimately the balance of evidence favours M2F access to women only spaces.

TLDR - strip out the tabloids, exclusion creates more net harm

versobooks.com/blogs/4090-i-m…

If you're still with me, we've solved the real predjudicial issue

Trans are marginalised deserving of protections and female identity rights

Trans must be given access to women's spaces. Arguments against are uninformed or predjudicial

We should be attacking tabloids over this

3. Real Women
I can't help. I look at data and evidence, this is opinion

One thought. In the 90s a nasty debate existed between gay and BEM men about whose marginalisation was more valid

I felt they then there was ultimately more to unite on than divide.

And surely also here?