Thread by @jaesunum

@christianllang Great question. Very open-ended, requires white space thinking. 🤔

Also very design thinking-y ✨ how might we capture, in a system of record, legal events oriented around value delivered?

⚠️ Impromptu mini ⛈️⚠️

(but first the source post)

https://twitter.com/jaesunum/status/1071750904632758274

@christianllang 1/ first assertion: traditional time-and-billing systems largely fail to meet the challenge, bc they are more akin to accounting records than records of legal events. here is a great post on the distinction (billing 💸 event vs legal ⚖️ event) biglawkm.com/2016/03/15/the…

@christianllang 2/ above post also IDs problems w the notion that "the atomic unit" of legal svcs is THE MATTER. sounds good in theory but in reality doesn't work so well. can attest to this personally after reviewing $8m+ pro forma in 12m & recoding/reorganizing time+matters for billing 😩😱🤬

@christianllang 3/ would posit the current state atomic unit of legal svcs is actually the time entry. basically the smallest denomination/unit of record that captures (again in theory) some coherent chunk of legal work completed & recorded.

descriptive not normative statement, don't @ me 😒

@christianllang 4/ obvi, size/shape/scope of each time entry is highly variable (despite many attempts to police) & reliability/accuracy highly questionable (w/o impugning lawyer integrity)

BUT noteworthy, this structure basically dictates client experience in bill review (usually 😐😕😠😡)

@christianllang 5/ Client usually looks at time + amount 1st, THEN assesses whether the described legal work merits that ⏰ & 💸

BUT in most cases, legal work doesn't create value at task resolution, in task-shaped chunks / time increments. so then Q becomes, what IS the resolution of value?

@christianllang 6/ here is where the answer might splice off depending on type of legal work. they're just working categories, again don't @ me 😒

(a) advisory/counseling/regulatory
(b) transactions/commercial
(c) litigation/enforcement

(some differences, some commonalities, actually?)

@christianllang 7/ in all legal work, we might posit that legal work can and does create value at INSIGHT GENERATION + DELIVERY.

practitioner does lawyer things, has lawyer thoughts, has brilliant lawyer 💡💯🔥 (omg so brill!)

Ford & Steinmetz story of itemized bill: smithsonianmag.com/history/charle…

@christianllang 8/ in project-oriented or high-stakes transactions and litigation, value is likely created/delivered at milestones, when some point of progress is reached. sometimes a binary proposition (deal fell thru or deal closed / dispositive motion won or lost).

SO this is recordable. 🔥

@christianllang 8/ BUT even recordable legal event milestones are not always recorded in time entries, or if they are they are recorded inconsistently 😐😑😒

some legal events relate closely to legal outcomes. some legal outcomes also binary, others also fall on a spectrum. same recording issue

@christianllang 9/ now some interesting points. legal events and legal outcomes have attributes beyond the bare minimum identifier (e.g. motion for sanctions granted/denied) and quantifier (e.g. dollar amount of sanctions).

IF time entries capture these attributes, even more inconsistency 😕

@christianllang 11/ totes screwed the numbering, also haven't answered original Q.

SO i think if we want to capture value oriented data, we first have to define better TAXONOMY. first re the resolution at record level: is the event a milestone? is it an outcome? then what are the attributes?

@christianllang 12/ it's important to separate these attributes from the subjective assessment of where the outcome falls on the spectrum of good to bad. I think the business-oriented view of the legal outcome is generally a combination of factors, and so that should inform thinking re taxonomy.

@christianllang 13/ what might this look like. some #legaltech startups trying to get at this problem, from different directions.

might be instructive to look OUTSIDE time+billing for legal event records. prob better records in KM systems, case mgmt/"build the case" systems (Allegory, Opus2)

@christianllang 14/ some budgeting tools get at this match-cost-to-legal work challenge in a top-down abstraction. i am not a fan of this actually. may be a good monitoring+control mechanism for managing what gets recorded/billed, am not convinced it is reliable record of what actually happened.

@christianllang 15/ some will argue time+billing is totally, absolutely, ridiculously wrong point of origin for this discussion bc billable hour already is / should be / very soon will be dead! AFAs FTW!

call me billable hour truther if you want 😕

it's not dead & will be around for a while.

@christianllang 16/ value pricing is impt, will be game changing at scale.

But note it is very much in use now, up+down value spectrum. has not & does not conceptually solve original problem re capturing value-oriented data / history of legal events.

so irrelevant at worst, orthogonal at best.

@christianllang 17/ now just tagging people who will have opinions about this

@dera_nevin @edsohn80 @pcarayiannis @DCaseyF

@christianllang @dera_nevin @edsohn80 @pcarayiannis @DCaseyF actually also meet my new friend @ryanalshak

also @anord04 i told you you need to take over this blogging ⛈️ business, did you see i screwed up the numbering like a n00b 😅😂

also @ZachAbramowitz say something about this, i demand it

@christianllang Ok this turned out not at all mini but totally extra. Will revisit tomo.

@wihender @ronfriedmann @jordan_law21 @robsaccone @DCaseyF @jborstein @edsohn80 @dera_nevin @ZachAbramowitz
@pcarayiannis @AlexHamiltonRad @CathJMoyn @cmkrow @ryanalshak

join the tweet ⛈ party 🤗

@christianllang @wihender @ronfriedmann @jordan_law21 @robsaccone @DCaseyF @jborstein @edsohn80 @dera_nevin @ZachAbramowitz @pcarayiannis @AlexHamiltonRad @CathJMoyn @cmkrow @ryanalshak Wow this thread went completely 🍌🍌🍌 (n like an awesome way)

😮🤯😅

tons of 🥩🍖🥪 for 🤔that will later end up in content elsewhere.

still, it is really hard to follow. SO I will wrap up in a new thread that is easier to consume!

💯 amazing contributions from everyone 🙏

@christianllang @ThreadReaderApp unroll