Thread by @mmpandit

New thread:
4 timelines of Mahabharata.
In the video below I show you points 1 and 2 first.
1. War timeline.
2. Balarama’s pilgrimage timeline.
3. Bhisma Moksha timeline

Bhisma Moksha timeline must show Bhisma departing at 4th/5th day post Winter Solstice only, not before or after, astronomy wise. Why? Why? Why?
Ask the question: here is the answer from debate/workshop slide
👇🏻

Its unfortunate that many researchers over the years could not get this really simple point correct: the Sun stands still for 3 days after Winter Solstice and is only seen to move Northward on the 4th day: “Remember the Sun has risen?”
Always ask why
👇🏻

That’s because, Solstice comes from Sol Sistere: ie. The Sun stands still.
How many days?
Answer: 3 days
That’s why the sentence is so clear, unfortunately it was missed by 5561BCE and most other researchers!
👇🏻

Now, why must the war never start on an Amavasya?
Check basic short film below which shows exactly why!
👇🏻

Now what about Krishna’s Mission of Peace timeline :
Critical edition (and 3067BCE exact corroboration) vs 5561BCE timeline.
👇🏻 Check who gets it right!!

In fact as we showed you, that solar eclipse which supposedly (and mistakenly) begins the war in 5561BCE on the 16th of Oct in that year according to his published book occurred 1 day later on 17th Oct.
Check Swiss ephemeris:

Arundhati (Alcor) is ahead of Vasistha (Mizar) for three thousand years OUTSIDE the 11000 to 4508BCE period proposed!!
Examples shown include:
1067BCE, 2067BCE and 3067BCE before sunrise (happens for a few months every year)
There is therefore NO EPOCH :

What are the three basic possibilities for Saturn and what are the 4 verses: short film here:
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Of course: Balarama’s pilgrimage cannot be corroborated except in two proposed dates for war: 3067BCE and 3162BCE (this latter fails other criteria)
👇🏻

https://twitter.com/mmpandit/status/1231253690549444608?s=21

https://t.co/EHUFhzq1JE

Old “Astronomy for beginners” thread:
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https://twitter.com/mmpandit/status/1202865796936032256?s=21

https://t.co/lS6dTNg1HI

What are the absurdities introduced by Shri Oak’s Moonphase analogy references in the last 7 days of war- part 1?
A Kartika Purnima on 12th war day followed by Vaishakha Purnima on 16th war day followed by Punarvasu Purnima on 17th war day.
Is it possible? What happens in reality

The justification for the Amavasya start to the war in 5561BCE is done using Moonphase analogies.
But what do absurdities do those verses produce?
I ask you, in real life separation between Kartika Purnima, Vaishakha Purnima and Punarvasu Purnima is how many months?

Suppose we assume for one moment that the 5561BCE theory of using Moonphase analogies is correct... then it means a full Moon occured on EVERY day from day 12 to 17 and after.
Is it possible? Can it ever happen in reality?

Let me frame this question in another manner.
If we have a full Moon occurring on every day between day 12 and day 17 and two days later, AND ancients were unable to detect full Moon Tithi accurately, why bother with tithies at all?
Check what happens!

This is the unfortunate situation which the thesis of 5561BCE finds itself in:
On one side, there is the 14th night Moonrise in the Eastern sky and on the other side there is the absurdities introduced by the full Moons at different Nakshatras following each other in few days!

Anywhere in India, can you find one place where people call 7 or 8 days as “like a full Moon”?
Is there any place where people say that Tryodashi is actually Purnima?
Can it happen?
All your religious festivals are so closely linked to Tithis that it is impossible.

Let me give a small example to illustrate my meaning.
Suppose today is a Chaturthi,(4th lunar day) then Krishna and Shukla Chaturthi are both sacred for Ganesh.
If it’s Tryaodashi (13th lunar day) then that at evening is Pradosh kala.

Trayodashi cant be “like Purnima”

Similarly if we say that it’s Shukla Chaturdashi... that’s important to Narasimha.
Krishna Chaturdashi is Kalika!
Shukla Chaturdashi can’t be Purnima. Our ancients are aware of all this... even today people one generation back knew Moonphases so well.

To say that “brightness of Moon is 93%” or whatever is actually of no use.
Indians are looking at Tithis. Does anybody even today look at the Moon and say: “You know what, the brightness is 93%, so it must be Purnima?”
It will never happen.
This is too straightforward!!

Let me show you Drik Panchang today so you understand that Moonphase EVEN TODAY is so important because all Hindu festivals are absolutely held to these in cast iron chains:
Check out: Purnima in exactly how many days.
Observers of Mahabharata knew this
👇🏻

Now, let’s go back to Moonphase references of 5561BCE war timeline again.

If we have a full Moon occurring on every day between day 12 and day 17 and two days later, AND ancients were unable to detect full Moon Tithi accurately, why bother with tithies at all?
You understand?

Basically another mistake made as already said earlier:
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https://twitter.com/mmpandit/status/1233060049314074627?s=21

https://t.co/5k1zlPlcdW

Now, let us look closely at what happens in 5561BCE when Saturn and Jupiter “near” Vishakha is brought into consideration:
Here Vishakha remains Vishakha, does NOT become Punarvasu as claimed elsewhere.

What’s even better is to ask what constitutes “Vishakha sameepasthou” or near Vishakha?
“Near” Vishakha in 5561BCE is 26 degrees away from Vishakha in case of Saturn and 55 degrees away from Vishakha in case of Jupiter!!

Thus a separation of two nakshatra distances away from Vishakha
(Swati and Chitra) and
four + Nakshatra distances from Vishakha:
(Anuradha, Jyestha, Mula, PurvaAshadha and Uttarashadha) cannot ever be claimed as “near” Vishakha.

In that case, Vyasa would have said that Saturn was “Hasta” sameepasthou and Jupiter was “Uttarashadha” sameepasthou..... not Vishakha sameepasthou!!

In fact Saturn at Vishakha is not really associated with catastrophic wars, it’s Saturn at Rohini which is associated with wars:

https://twitter.com/mmpandit/status/1233543387875282944?s=21

https://t.co/CQgUcRtH72

The verse preceding the verse on the two grahas at Vishakha describes that these two grahas are obscuring the Saptarishis with their “shikhas” in other words tails.
See how, only comets could ever obscure the Saptarishis with their shikhas.

If you don’t believe me, let me show you the two verses together:
How clear the two verses together are:
And what’s the verse after these two verses?
Understand the context! That verse also talks of a Tivra graha like a Dhumaketu obscuring Plaeides!

Now let me show you a real example of Jupiter and Saturn near Vishakha since people want to see examples: This conjunction near Vishakha is rare every year. This is for Aug 10 3819BCE

BUT can Saturn and Jupiter ever obscure Saptarishis? Check simulation
A: Impossibility

3 positions for Saturn/4 verses.
1 reference could hence refer to Yama or to a graha which is indeed Surya Putra and Varahamihira does refer to comets as such in a classification. In any case, that one verse position therefore is lower in rank for Saturn than other two.

The possible position of Saturn at Vishakha is completely clarified and excluded since neither Saturn nor Jupiter have tails/Shikha nor can they obscure Saptarishis.
Hence they must be comets.

The only remaining possibility is the position of Saturn at Rohini. (Two verses, both mentioning Saturn at Rohini)
Hence Saturn must be at Rohini during the Mahabharata war.

By the way, the verse after this set of verses refers to a Dhumaketu like Tivra graha which obscures the Plaeides group of stars.... which planet can do this?
A: None... must be a comet.

https://twitter.com/mmpandit/status/1234033013660450816?s=21

https://t.co/oisZZPO1UY

This next verse is verse 26 in chapter 3 Bhisma Parva:
Shri Vartak started by taking this Tivra graha to mean Pluto:
See the absurdity?
Pluto which is invisible to the naked eye is supposedly hiding the Plaeides group of stars?!!! Ask yourself. Can it do so?

I am often asked why I don’t corroborate this position of Mars and Jupiter retrograde in Magha and Shravana given in Chapter 3 Bhisma Parva in one and the same verse.
That’s because it requires Sun to be in two simultaneous positions 150+ degrees apart in 1 verse 😂😂😂

Let’s come to an interesting question. Can Jupiter cause peeda to Rohini nakshatra? And if so why? And if not why?
Clues👇🏻
1. Jupiter cannot cause peeda by normal definition and by being in Rohini.
2. There is only one way Jupiter afflicts (causes peeda ) to Rohini!
How?

If the verse was about Saturn then the interpretation would be easy and we could have looked at it from so many different angles.
BUT the verse is about Jupiter who by normal Jyotish definition never causes peeda except in one or two circumstances only known to Jyotishis.
Which?

As per Jyotish hora shastra, the day such a question comes up on Rohini nakshatra is also.........

You guessed it: Rohini nakshatra (KP refined this theory to take LSRD)

Is there anybody on Twitter/ any researcher who can show exact Jyotish corroboration for fall of Bhisma and why Karna takes control of Kaurava army and why he is forced to use Vasav shakti.
AND how n why Ghatotkacha came on that 14th night forcing Karna to use it?
Anybody?
I can

One question is “Is the nature of the verses astrological or astronomy based?” Then one must first ask what did Vyasa have in mind:
Astrological verses or Astronomy wise?

First ask what Vyasa envisaged?

Did Vyasa want to create an artificial distinction between astrology and astronomy in the Mahabharata?
In that case he would never have used omens, muhurtas, peeda, or indeed Vakra in his work.
So if someone wants to create that distinction then that cannot be right.

Secondly the Jyotish used must be considered. Today’s Jyotish is mostly rashi based.
There are some works which use nakshatra based peeda and other terms.
So each verse must be considered on its own merits and nakshatra must be considered (not rashi).

Hence we come to the inescapable point that not all graha observations need to be planets because the ancient Indians had a knowledge of cosmology to include planets, comets and even other mathematical points/ bodies.
Any research which does not consider this is flawed.

So, how reproducible is a piece of research?
Intersecting thread here:
👇🏻

https://twitter.com/mmpandit/status/1234745638295871488?s=21

https://t.co/rL1HL3r2Wh

Now let’s update you on comets:
As of July 2019, 6619 known comets:
But how many comets actually exist?
A: Estimated 1 trillion comets

This means that we only know about those comets which we have observed so far.

In the last two centuries mankind saw a few comets. How many of those comets did we see before this point or after?
There is almost no record of these comets?
So that means that so many comets have come and gone in the last 5000 years, but majority of them won’t be known to us.

Long-period comets (those which take more than 200 years to complete an orbit around the Sun) originate from the Oort Cloud.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l…

The next Birmingham workshop on Mahabharata is coming in less than a fortnight on the 17th of March.
Hope to see many of you there.
Afterwards another session of teaching and discussion on various points of Mahabharata.
Venue: TBA

5561BCE vs 3067BCE
Scientific corroboration or not

Right!! Now let’s look at people verifying “planetary conjunctions”
Are these actual planetary conjunctions or more analogies?
Venus Mercury etc etc. Many researchers made this mistake. You judge:

Should I also try to corroborate these sort of analogies? Are these actual observations of the sky?
Well... you can judge for yourselves.

Apart from the obvious problem of verifying analogies which are not actual observations, should I really check whether any astronomy wise impossibility is present or not?
This is one such.

This one is from 1198BCE ... another researcher who claims to corroborate all the conjunctions which took place.
I give you this so all can have a look at the SS. None are conjunctions... more analogies.
Very very very very few real conjunctions are present in Mahabharata text:

मघाविषयगः सोमस्तविनं प्रत्यपद्यत दीप्यमानाश्चसपं ते र्मुदविसप्तमहाग्रहाः

MBH 6:17:2
Seven great “grahas” flew together and burned in sky.
In 5561BCE, identified as Neptune, Uranus, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Mercury, and Saturn.
What’s the problem with this corroboration?
+

+ In 5561BCE,
Problem: Neptune not seen with eye. Mercury too close to Sun to be seen.
Mars and Saturn 122 degrees away from each other. Uranus n Neptune in Aquarius. Neptune was 146 degrees away from Saturn.

The planets were NOT conjunct at all, not flying together.

Gita press Shayla Parva chapter 11:17 is taken as corroboration of Mars Venus and Mercury being together.
Mars and Venus are together but Mercury is far away from this conjunction.

Just as an example.
What real approaching conjunctions of Mars and Jupiter look like (they are 7 degrees apart).

Mars and Saturn are probably too far apart to call it a conjunction (they are 15 degrees apart).

This is Mercury retrograde motion in Aquarius from 1994 Jan to March.
I show it to you for understanding the geocentric frame of view true Vakri or retrograde motion of importance versus “crossing the ecliptic obliquely” which latter is an everyday phenomenon and holds no value.

Ok. Next Mahabharata war date debunked is 3008BCE

The Lunar eclipse in the second half of the year was at Uttarabhadrapada not Kartika, the following Solar eclipse at Hasta and not at Jyestha,+

+ debunking 3008BCE:
Mars retrograde motion was at Uttarphalguni too late that year to be described by Karna, he would be dead by then, Bhisma cannot get Moksha for this date as its Amavasya just following Winter Solstice in the following year in 3007BCE.