1) Well, everyone, I responded to a Trump tweet with 'Good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns', and of course I was challenged on this notion by this guy, who first wanted to know what mass shooting incidents were stopped by good guys with guns.
2) He later clarified that it had to be NON-Law enforcement. A fair clarification, for which I provided examples that just took a few minutes to dig up.
3) He then tried to change the parameters by trying to have me prove the negative. He does not know how to debate, typical of Clermonts, because in a debate, when you want to disprove something, YOU HAVE TO BE THE ONE DISPROVING IT
4) See, he lacks all logic, because in order to disprove the notion that a good guy with a gun can stop bad guys with guns from performing mass shootings, all you should have to do is find a mass shooting incident where the good guy with the gun failed, right?
5) But HE WONT DO THAT. He wants ME to do that. Oh, I will. I'm miffed. I'm ticked. I'm sober. You have woken the dragon.
6) Lets just look at the past decade. I'll include 2007 because I'm feeling generous.
7) That's right, @toimhseachan this is me SOBER. I'm angrier when I'm sober. Bourbon is what soothes my soul and calms me down. On bourbon I may have let this go, but oh no.
8) I am going to DESTROY your petty attempt to get one over on me, even though I know you're intellectually dishonest and will block me halfway through. Because you're a coward. All Clermonts are cowards. Its in your nature when you're faced with facts you can't refute to run.
9) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_… Virginia Tech, kid runs around in a gun free zone. No one around to stop him.
10) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Colo… A church shooting. He opens up once at the entrance and once at the parking lot until a former police officer with a gun stops him.
11) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crandon,_… Off duty deputy attacks a party and kills several people until police stop him.
12) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_S… Man roams a parking garage and a mall with several guns until police stop him. No good guys with guns around to stop him.
13) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads… Dude goes into a department store, checks around, then comes back with a gun and opens fire. No good guys with guns around to stop him.
14) That was 2007. Lets go to 2008.
15) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis_… Employee goes nuts, shoots five people before killing himself. He was the only one with a gun around.
16) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covina_ma… Dude dressed as santa with a 9mm and a homemade flamethrower attacks an in-laws christmas party. No one with guns to stop him.
17) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkwood_… City council meeting, dude ambushes and kills the police officer then attacks the city council meeting. The police station was right across the parking lot.
18) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville… Dude attacks a church play performance with 200 people in the audience. Has to be wrestled to the ground. No other guns present.
19) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_Brya… Possible robbery turned mass shooting. No other guns present.
20) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_… Dude goes onto a gun-free zone with guns, turns it into a shooting gallery, killing himself before police arrive.
21) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Skag… Dude shoots a deputy, kills a few bystanders without guns, leads police on a high-speed chase.
22) That was 2008. Now for 2009.
23) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamto… Vietnamese immigrant attacks a civic center where ESL classes were being taught. No one with guns present to stop him.
24) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage_… Nursing home attacked by someone trying to kill an ex, no one with guns present to stop him until police arrive.
25) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Coll… Dude attacks an LA fitness aerobics class before killing himself. No one else with guns present.
26) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort… Fort Hood, a mass shooting that was really a terrorist attack; the dude was inspired by a Yemeni-American Imam who was later killed in a drone strike. He screamed 'allahu akbar' before opening fire.
27) military.com/daily-news/201… No, you can't carry firearms on a military base. It was a gun free zone full of soldiers.
28) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Co… Dude drives around killing extended family. No one he attacks have guns to defend themselves.
29) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearcy_mu… 2 burglaries where 5 people were killed. The victims did have guns, but the break in happened at midnight and they were shot execution style in their sleep. Not really mass shootings, given they happened during robberies when the victims were asleep.
30) Note, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm leaving out the two (so far) police ambushes that happened, as I was told to leave out anything with law enforcement in the original debate.
31) That was in 2009. Now for 2010.
32) Note that so far the ONLY ONE where the victims had guns, it was during a burglary where they were sound asleep and probably shot execution style.
33) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABB_plant… Power plant employee attacks, kills a few people, then supposedly another employee retrieves his gun from his car to return fire but was later fired; I can find no correlating information in the source articles for this.
34) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_… Employee attacks a warehouse he worked at, shoots several people, kills himself. No one present with guns to stop him until police arrive.
35) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penske_sh… Former employee opens fire at his former workplace, no one with guns until police arrive.
36) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universit… Professor denied tenure at a university attacks and kills people. Gun free zone.
37) That was 2010. @toimhseachan has not blocked me, but appears to have muted or is just ignoring my efforts to prove my point; show that it is impossible for him to disprove my point. Because Clermont is intellectually lazy and dishonest. Also, Scottish whiskey is horsepiss.
38) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent… Disgruntled employee shoots up workplace, escapes, kills himself when confronted by police the next day.
39) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Copl… Attacker runs around several neighboring houses killing people. No one with guns present until police arrive.
40) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Gran… Dude attacks ex girlfriend's house and estranged wife's house, killing several people and family members. No one with guns present to stop him until police confront him later.
41) INTERMISSION
42) All of these mass shootings, notice what we're not seeing? A good guy with a gun present to stop the bad guys with guns. Why? BECAUSE POLICE ARE NOT OMNIPRESENT.
43) Want to know ANOTHER interesting fact? The % of households with guns HAVE BEEN DECLINING. norc.org/PDFs/GSS%20Rep…
44) 47% in 1973 to 31% in 2014. Yeah. A smaller proportion of Americans own guns nowadays than before. That's a 33% decline in households alone owning guns in 40 years.
45) Do gun control advocates want to talk about how many THAT'S a contributing factor to mass shootings? That the guns in the United States are becoming more concentrated with fewer individuals?
46) That, by extension, there are fewer individual good guys with guns walking around with them to protect against the bad guys with guns?
47) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_IHOP… Man shoots up a restaurant killing 4 people. He then fires wildly into neighboring businesses.
48) reuters.com/article/us-sho… Wikipedia claims the Ralph Swagler guy had a gun and failed to stop the shooter, but NO OTHER SUPPORTING ARTICLE mentions this.
49) Methinks someone keeps slipping this 'good guy with a gun failed to stop the shooter' crap into wikipedia articles hoping no one will fact check them. But I will. Assholes.
50) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Seal… Guy shoots up a salon, police later arrest him. No one with guns present to stop him.
51) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_… Office building shot up by disgruntled employee. No one with guns present to stop him.
52) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucs… The Giffords shooting, no one present had a gun, the CCW holder didn't arrive until after the scene.
53) I'm sorry, but.... I gotta stop here. 4 years of mass shootings where the numbers are blurring together. People that are defenseless are being attacked by assholes with guns. The police never arrive until its too late. Good guys with guns aren't present to save anyone.
54) But hey, let's disarm all the good guys with guns anyways. Because that will work. politifact.com/punditfact/sta… Even politifact in fact-checking a @JoeNBC statement that only 3% of the murders and crimes with guns are with legal guns was half true because THE NUMBER MAY BE LOWER
55) "But the studies only tell us where the guns came from, not whether they were acquired legally, and there are issues with using the data to reach the conclusion Scarborough did, experts told us."
56) No, the 'gift to a family member' isn't a legal way to acquire guns. unless you go through a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer to transfer ownership of a gun, you cannot just give them away.
57) But sure. Let's have CNN try to dictate the debate with scripted questions from students and disallowing their own questions. "16 year olds are totally able to take part in the debate, if they only ask the questions we let them ask!"
58) Gun control people? You're all ridiculous. All of you. @CNN @nytimes @washingtonpost YOU ARE ALL PROPAGANDA. Just stop. Stop being the stasi. Stop destroying political discourse. Just... JUST STOP.
/end
