Thread by @dsmart

**BREAKING** As key departures continue, something BIG is amiss with CIG/F42, the developers of Star Citizen.

More as this develops.

ps: It's nothing to do with the Crytek lawsuit, as that's not even a bleep in the unfolding development.

As a follow-up to my "sale" vs "pledge" thread (below), last year sources had told me that refunds were going to be stopped after 3.0 was released. They released it 12/17 and that's precisely what appears to have happened as per the 6th ToS change.

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Since Jan 2018, the refunds have been to those who initiated it ahead of 3.0, or those who initiated it within a 2 week period of their purchase.

Some have waited MONTHS to hear back about refunds, only to be rejected or ignored; even as CIG continues to issue template responses

Recently, refunds of several thousand Dollars (including an $11K Wing Commander backer) have flooded the Reddit sub that's already full of complaints from people having waited for MONTHS.

reddit.com/r/starcitizen_…

Some, like others in the past, have now resorted to legal action; though some of the ones I am aware of, are not yet public (I am old school; and notorious for not disclosing things people tell me not to), though they're in for a rude awakening.

reddit.com/r/starcitizen_…

I have said it before, but bears repeating.

CIG/RSI/F42 are obligated to issue refunds to ANYONE who BOUGHT anything on their website. There is NO premise under which they can refuse having NOT delivered a complete work product.

If u backed on Kickstarter, in 2012 you're SOL.

Also, backers KNOWINGLY agreed to their ToS which, enforceable or not, has a BINDING arbitration clause in all recent versions.

There is NO getting around that. So you can forget about any delusions of a class action happening.

Only govt action is going to get around that.

For the record, I am 100% behind CIG/RSI/F42 on this.

They warned you - REPEATEDLY - in their TOS changes, yet you WILLINGLY gave them money.

They didn't steal or coerce it out of you the backer, let alone sell you something you didn't know you were buying.

That leaves your ONLY claim that's likely to stand, being their inability to deliver what you bought. That's it. All of it.

Any claims of fraud are a non-starter. You can't prove they did that when YOU gave them money.

Misrepresentation? Maybe. Failure to deliver? Definitely.

Though I give them a lot of flak cuz I personally BELIEVE that, by their own actions and words, they're actively running a SCAM, while refusing to give refunds or disclosing financials to backers as PROMISED, there are some things that I can't in good conscience accuse them of.

If they had kept that ONE promise of disclosing financials to backers, instead of REPEATEDLY changing their TOS to remove that, I am 100% confident that they would NEVER have raised this much money.

But enough about that because the Crytek lawsuit has those answers.

Even after my legal action that was the impetus for the govt action via the State of CA, and which PROVED what I was saying all along about refunds, they were still rejecting refunds under the guise of the project being crowd-funded.

dereksmart.com/2016/07/star-c…

That was one of the things as I asked them for in the interest of backers.

The 2nd item I asked for, was to remove uncertainty of the development by giving backers a dev schedule. They resisted that too; then did it anyway. Except they kept LYING (I have irrefutable evidence).

They did those 2 things, merely months after Ortwin told my attorneys to go pound sand.

Then sources disclosed to me that the schedules were all BULLSHIT designed to appease backers at a time when moral and funding was on the decline.

It worked.

With the help of highly credible sources, I wrote various articles explaining that the dev schedule was complete bullshit, and that despite their 2016 end date, the internal version stretched all the way to 2021. Here is one such article.

dereksmart.com/forums/reply/5…

As we later found out, through various COMPLETE revisions to the schedule which Chris had shown at various shows, as well as on the website, it turns out sources were correct about that too.

Then they changed the schedule format completely.

And as my previous threads and articles have shown, even the new format which bears little to no resemblance to prior versions, they're just focused on check boxes that result in backers spending money, rather than focusing on MAKING AN ACTUAL GAME.

Which, even if they did everything promised - without cutting anything - the project, as of the latest 3.1 patch, requires at a MINIMUM another 7.75 yrs to complete. All things being equal.

starcitizentracker.github.io

And that 7.75 yrs (empirical) is conservative because the completion curve I used was constant - and we devs know how well our best laid plans tend to go.

With delays, I would estimate another 10 yrs. TEN YEARS!!

As sources tell me, there isn't a SINGLE dev who has ever touched this project, who doesn't know that.

This was a project that due out in Nov 2014.

This is WHY I remain an advocate for people getting refunds - no questions asked.

If they continue to ignore and/or make it difficult, even though they are raising money; like the Crytek lawsuit, they will be responsible once the govt comes calling again. And it WILL happen.

They KNOW they're treading on thin ice when it comes to refunds; and that their crowd-funding mask simply won't hold up. But the arrogance, hubris & everything in between seen on display in their Crytek lawsuit filings should be a clue about the type of people we're dealing with.

You have to ask yourself why would a company that - according to them - is publicly raising about $100K per month, resist giving refunds to people for as little as $60.

Whales with $10K+ deserve all the resistance they get because there's a price to be paid for being a fool.

I have accused them of running a Ponzi-like scheme. The primary revenue is via crowd-funding. So it's basically taking new money to refund old money. And when the refunds exceed the new money, that's when it all collapses.

That's EXACTLY what I hear is happening now.

In case you were thinking about the merchandising income, it's nothing in comparison.

The hilarious part of that is this.

They take money from backers to make a game. But they make cheap goods, which they then sell to the backers at a huge mark-up.

It's fucking genius.

There are those who simply don't understand what my "beef" is.

Once again, I'm going to repeat it.

There is no beef. I am notorious for not taking shit from anyone. And people don't scare me.

I questioned the project when their OWN people came to ME.

They KNEW that, being the only one who has EVER been insane enough to build games of this scope, that I was going to be an absolute pain because I had to know they were now actively LYING now.

Then they did what most sensible companies run by very smart people, and with an industry PR legend like David Swofford on their payroll.

They decided first to come after me by attacking me through false media releases in an attempt to silence and vilify me.

Then....

When that didn't work, and most of the media weren't having any of that, Chris Roberts wrote a diatribe which then made me the target of their insane & toxic backers who have not only harassed & attacked me, but also doxxed me, my family and friends in an attempt to silence me.

This is the archive copy of the now removed diatribe. Remember, this was written by the CEO and creator of a multi-million Dollar crowd-funded project against a media site and a SINGLE developer who DARED to ask questions.

web.archive.org/web/2017032004…

I live in Florida, we take that shit seriously down here. I didn't sue because I have NO interest in that, as the end result would have been money. I don't want nor need their dirty money - which would have come from the very same backers I have been fighting for since July 2015.

So that's my "beef".

This is how it started whereby over 3 yrs now, not only is the project an complete DISASTER, but the loss of over $180m of backer money which could have gone into other games, is now a TOTAL LOSS.

They will NEVER get away with it.

dereksmart.org/2015/08/star-c…

ps: For those of you who are already aware of the history, you're not the target of this thread.

It's my "I told you so" recap designed to bring others up to speed for what I hear is coming next.

Remember how the Crytek lawsuit came out of nowhere? This is worse.

Washington State (2015)

atg.wa.gov/news/news-rele…

crowdcheck.com/blog/first-cro…

NY (2016)

ag.ny.gov/press-release/…

There are several others.

Problem CIG faces has NOTHING to do with whether or not they are making a game - because they are.

No, it's about 1) WHAT happened to backer money, and 2) WHY are they not issuing refunds having FAILED to deliver on promised made.

If you let the govt look up skirt, you're DONE.