1/ Waking up to see the podcast hosted by @TheVeggieMD dropped with guests @ethanjweiss and @cadiulus.
I'm going to do a live listen thread here...
I'm going to do a live listen thread here...
2/ DISCLAIMER: Yes, I usually avoid the diet debate, but I'll concede up front that I'm certainly pro-awareness of diet choices. I think it's unfortunate so few people know about #PlantBasedKeto if indeed they want to be both #Keto and #PlantBased, yet are unaware it is possible.
3/ Not saying I know it is definitely better or worse, or in what ways as we don't have long term data. But I do know people on it who -- for them -- it was the perfect match they were looking for, but genuinely didn't know it existed.
Now... on to the podcast...
Now... on to the podcast...
4/ Side note -- I usually start of podcasts at 2x speed. Obviously there's an intro and lots of how-did-you-get-started openings for the guests.
In this case, @TheVeggieMD appears to be taking great care at emphasizing her interest in #PlantBasedKeto is not a knock on #HCLF
In this case, @TheVeggieMD appears to be taking great care at emphasizing her interest in #PlantBasedKeto is not a knock on #HCLF
@TheVeggieMD 5/ 43:38 @ethanjweiss gives a measured statement on LDL hyper-responders here. It might not seem like it at first, but read carefully:
[1 of 5] "And as a result of that, there’s a group of people out there have now come to believe that [high LDL from keto] doesn’t matter..."
[1 of 5] "And as a result of that, there’s a group of people out there have now come to believe that [high LDL from keto] doesn’t matter..."
6/ @ethanjweiss [cont 2 of 5] "So that has occupied a good part of my life for the past couple of years trying to understand this and to talk about this and to think about this..."
7/ @ethanjweiss [cont 3 of 5] "And I guess ultimately I came back to this principle that I think you can’t go away from, which is that until we have proof that LDL cholesterol is not dangerous, I think we have to assume that it is, no matter how it goes up..."
8/ @ethanjweiss [cont 4 of 5] There are absolutely reasons to believe that increases in LDL cholesterol as a result of nutrition changes may be less dangerous than if they were high for genetics or other reasons. But I think that’s not the default answer..."
9/ @ethanjweiss [cont 5 of 5] "I think we have to assume that’s not true until we can prove that it is. And so in the mean time, what do we do?"
If you read this closely, @ethanjweiss isn't saying LDL as dangerous in any context is an established fact, but the base assumption...
If you read this closely, @ethanjweiss isn't saying LDL as dangerous in any context is an established fact, but the base assumption...
10/ Make no mistake, I know many in lipidology circles that would consider his statement much too moderate.
11/ Of course, as you all know, I'm "cautiously optimistic" where LDL is high for metabolic reasons and not pathological ones and speak on this at length here:
But I don't make a claim of certainty in this regard and am happy to emphasize it often.
But I don't make a claim of certainty in this regard and am happy to emphasize it often.
12/ 46:50 @cadiulus describes how the Vegan Keto Made Simple facebook group had many reported examples of LDL drops in a thread where they asked for such changes. I'd love to get that data and share it on CC, even if anecdotal.
@cadiulus 13/ @TheVeggieMD 47:20 - "There’s a study that shows that polyunsaturated fat may decrease the aggregation of LDL particles once inside the endothelium and decrease aggregation susceptibility which makes decreased risk of atherosclerosis"
Hey @TheVeggieMD, can you link this one?
Hey @TheVeggieMD, can you link this one?
@cadiulus @TheVeggieMD 14/ 48:05 @ethanjweiss “I think we’re at the point now where we can at least set aside that [PUFAs are] dangerous and I think there’s a lot of evidence to support that it’s probably beneficial. I’m sure there are going to be people who disagree with that..."
15/ Can't say I agree with @ethanjweiss on the conclusiveness of the data there, particularly as PUFAs can be very context dependent -- such as whole food sources vs highly processed seed oils.
16/ 56:05 @TheVeggieMD details how she pulled off doing the diet *without* oils as a major source of fat, instead having lots of chia and flax seeds, nuts, and avocado. I had actually never heard anyone pull this off before now (to meet a true keto ratio)
17/ Man, @cadiulus makes such an amazing statement at 1:11:58. I’m currently running errands and can’t transcribe, but I probably will when I get back home...
